What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

as shown in Florida's $15 minimum wage vote

VHS go read that fucking Appeal article. starting with DTP/ATP actually helps.

The article doesn't deny my suspicions that DTP/ABT doesn't help democrats in more conservative states. If anything, Max Rose's example shows that it might be a dead-end.

If you are in a true blue state, then yeah, you would be super dumb to not go all in police abolition.

Defunding the police is a city matter, not a state one, at least until some GOP legislature tries to revoke home rule from their cities over it.

Cities are where the action is on this and if moderate dems from the sticks catch flak over it, sucks to be them I guess.

lol wow VHS you really don't know how this country works, that is not at all what is happening politics-wise

(xp)

and yeah what silby said, it's a very local issue for the most part and Dem mayors have actually been terrible on this issue mostly.

fucking Ted Wheeler, don't even get me started

Pretty much what I say: the onus is on them, I understand it puts them in a harsh situation and I think it's worth thinking through what it means for them but it is still their job.

Negative slogans/policies have to be accompanied by positive actions, but sometimes that's not accomplishable in the slogan, it requires years of messaging and outreach. You cannot shoehorn in your plan to divert cop overtime funds to universal daycare in your city - too many words. You have to focus on removing the cops' power to murder and abuse and message about the upside. It won't work overnight.

Beyond that, all the potential slogans are going to be risky and negative and at least initially poorly received by upper-middle class home owners.

Many more ppl may come around and accept DTP. Sure could happen. But "cause BLM, this is definitely how this too will play out" is not a logically sound position.
I think DTP is a bad slogan and wish there was a better one. Better one still might fail. Don't see the downside in trying some out, esp given polling results that show it to turn off otherwise receptive people.

you don't have to convince everyone, just a majority of voters. why waste time appeasing?

Positive slogan…Fund Police Support Systems idk

lol sorry no

they have plenty of support already and are far less dangerous than many jobs (like pizza delivery)

are it is

Patriot act is brilliant labeling. Who wants to vote against something called that. "You're against funding support systems for police?? You monster!"

I'm not trying to win YOU over, how are y'all still not grasping that

GD, it's true that some people don't like DTP, but some people love it and it works for them. Up to politicians to adjust. It only gets complicated when you try to shove one message on a diverse population with different life experiences.

No doubt. My point is I don't think DTP will ever work on some people who nonetheless are receptive to at least some of the objectives it is shorthand for. It's worth trying out different messaging to reach them.

"some people"

I'm arguing that some people might see it this way while I'm making clear I understand what's the point of DTP and you guys are jumping on me.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, November 11, 2020 2:40 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

That’s the definition of concern trolling

― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby)

So you think VHS was being disingenuous there?

I'll stand corrected once I see polls in rural areas of swing states and conservatives states that clearly demonstrate that DTP works there.

As much as I'd like to just light every racist White person in the US on fire, can we all agree that that isn't going to happen and that some of them will need to agree that defunding the police will make their lives better before it actually happens and it's not a bad thing to use whatever rhetoric is necessary to bring them to that conclusion?

I'd love it if Democrats actually had the balls to run on the platform and explain it to the constituents but since that isn't going to happen due to everyone being a gigantic bag of shit, can we think about a path that gives us the same endpoint but allows the giant shit balls to pretend they're made of marzipan?

It's worth trying out different messaging to reach them.

My argument is that it's up to the politicians in those areas to try out different messaging, not up to progressives who found a winner in DTP. You can't possibly ask them to change something that obviously resonate with their constituents.

I mean it's also just not going to happen because...Democrats xp

I think it's happening slowly thanks to progressives but as milo said it's a new concept that needs to evolve organically.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%22defund%20the%20police%22&geo=US

The first time the phrase was used enough to even register in Google Trends was June.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%22black%20lives%20matter%22

Black Lives Matter registers for three years before attitudes went positive.

It is entirely possible that 'defund the police' will never go positive in rural areas, who pretty much by definition don't have the issues that urban areas do. Has Black Lives Matter gone positive in those areas? Has same-sex marriage?

Guess I don't understand why people feel attached to that slogan. I'd love to confiscate guns, and I'm sure CONFISCATE ALL GUNS plays well with some people, but it alienates even more people. Ppl who are needed to get some gun regulations passed.

Because it's a good slogan that lays out a desire to rein in American police while leaving the door open to societal improvements (defunding? that means there's more money in the budget for other things. etc.), without just being Fuck The Pigs. Which is my personal slogan.

And yet I think it's a bad slogan. Funny how that works.

Patriot act is brilliant labeling. Who wants to vote against something called that.

this 100% sounds like nazi bullshit aimed contemptuously at rubes

No one is telling you that you have to get it tattooed above your heart.

"fuck the police" has had staying power you gotta admit

The Patriot Act also didn't have to be sold to the public. It was written overnight (Joe Biden says by Joe Biden) and passed with blinding speed without being read, much less presented to constituents.

Your response to that is "give it time". So ok let's see what happens. I'll be glad if it turns out to be effective. In the meantime there's no harm in trying out other messaging.

I would go with 'No more parking tickets'

The Only Good Cop Is a Traffic Cop

"this 100% sounds like nazi bullshit aimed contemptuously at rubes "

Exactly! Now you're on the trolley

Yes but they would have to forever be labeled as someone who voted against the Patriot Act

forgive me if someone here has already explained why they think it’s a bad slogan, but.... why is it bad

Well no parking enforcement is one of the things we want to move out of the police department entirely.

But we should also ban parking.

62 Democrats voted against the Patriot Act

Brad it’s bad because it alienates a certain subset of people who would share the aim of defunding the police but only if you use other words for it (??????)

+ Bernie

It did not seem to torpedo his legislative career

(And wacky racist libertarian Ron Paul)

Vermont isn't very patriotic ime

There's data that backs that up, Mr snideypants

Xxxp

ppl just also love to say “it’s a bad phrase” without explaining why. xgau was like “i’m an editor, it’s a bad phrase.” bitch, why