What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

otm

i still think they should be paid for their positions, just change all their duties to "play fortnite". give them a few dog parks to shoot their guns in during down time when they need to take breaks from that.

xp yeah they don't need "training" for sure, that's been bogus for decades

If you want a different slogan for some reason related to the message you want to put into the world or for your policy aims or whatever, cool, but don't fool yourself that the response is going to be any better. You have to "educate low-info voters," not "run scared from them."

Alternatively, pick a slogan that's inscrutable to low-info voters. One of the early BLM slogans from late 2014 was "Indict the System". It almost begs readers to allow activists to unpack it for them in positive language.

yeah i don't know bout that, clear communication is a starting point to being honest with people which is essential imo

sorry i'm kind of shitposting i think i need a break lol

words do matter, and there are lot of "squishies" who don't want to pick a side or make waves. but yeah, it's ACA/Obamacare all over again, where they support the thing but they don't because of racism

Alternatively, pick a slogan that's inscrutable to low-info voters. One of the early BLM slogans from late 2014 was "Indict the System". It almost begs readers to allow activists to unpack it for them in positive language.

This is ridiculous. Inscrutable meaningless slogans are going to get you nowhere, because no one knows what the fuck you're trying to accomplish.

"Indict the system" sounds like a rejected tagline for a Hackers sequel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKIs86NhVno

"Cops and cop lovers"

Who cares about them, unless you think they constitute every single person who is put off by DTP

i am lolling @ VHS being concerned about them losing their jobs. we live in a dystopia where we have a make-work program for violent assholes and we can never hope for anything better.

No I’m worried the only thing some low info voters are going to get from DTP is that cops will lose their jobs, which is a net negative for lots of people who disagree with you on the role of the police and society. I’m 100% for the gradual replacement of the police force by other better suited institutions dedicated to care and uplifting communities, I’m allowed to worry the message is not coming accross. And considering how some posters are taking glee in the idea of unemployment of a whole profession like it wouldn’t have disastrous consequences for the rest of us because they are freaking economic stakeholders outside of their profession, it makes me wonder if this more about shitting on cops than making society better. Milo correctly mentionned a transition period, good luck selling policy that says ‘hey by the way you gotta transition’ when at the tail-end of it there is very little for them.

Who cares about them,

Correct.

unless you think they constitute every single person who is put off by DTP

The cops and cop lovers control the response to any slogan you offer up - no matter how watered down, that response is going to be that you want to murder police in their sleep. Thus the slogan doesn't actually matter that much when you're talking about taking away privileges from the pigs.

Black Lives Matter only became somewhat acceptable after years of work and normalization, as will be required of any slogan.

See above:

If you want a different slogan for some reason related to the message you want to put into the world or for your policy aims or whatever, cool, but don't fool yourself that the response is going to be any better. You have to "educate low-info voters," not "run scared from them."

Disarm the police - OH YOU WANT US TO BE MURDERED BY MS-13
Demilitarize the police - OH YOU WANT US TO BE MURDERED BY MS-13
Stop adversarial policing - OH YOU WANT US TO CODDLE MS-13 BEFORE THEY MURDER US
etc.

Listen to The Police

could lead to subversive outcomes

^^ yep totally, this is why doubling down seems like the way forward. "defund not abolish" can be the new slogan

for example:

"...Rose ran to the right on criminal justice policy and made his support for police a hallmark of his campaign. “I think that this is a critical moment where we should be investing in our police even more,” Rose said in an October debate. But even a commitment to more funding for the police did not stop the Sergeants Benevolent Association from calling Rose a “cop-hater”. "

https://theappeal.org/defund-the-police-medicare-for-all/

sorry that was an xp to milo who I agree with 100% here

Well except do abolish the police, don’t not abolish the police

(that guy above lost his race, btw)

and yeah what I was after was more "oh you don't like defund, how about abolish then? does defund sound better now?"

Well that’s just lying to people then

I'm OK with "defund" being the end result compromise while ofc hoping for that fabled Marxist withering away in the end

CAHOOTS for everyone (not the sex shop, sorry map)

Slogans are memes. They tend to become detached from more nuanced explanations as they float around out in the real world, so they need to work in a stand alone context. They can range from purely factual to purely emotional, but they should speak to your intended audience in an unambiguous way about an easily understood (or imagined) consequence that they find either attractive or repellent. Long history suggests that two to seven words is ideal. More than nine words and they fail as slogans.

Disarm the police - OH YOU WANT US TO BE MURDERED BY MS-13...etc.

Yeah. Fear is a potent and easily manipulated emotion. Anyone who believes MS-13 is lurking everywhere ready to pounce, but the police are like faithful guard dogs, is never going to respond positively to any appeal to defund police. They aren't the audience.

i am in favor of the government providing jobs for all so i've solved the unemployment problem

Reaction to BLM has literally nothing to do with any potential reaction to an improved version of DTP. Like that's just a shockingly bad argument to make.

i haven't read the millions of posts above, but "defund" is obviously already a compromise meant to draw attention to the role of city budgets in all of this - a means of focusing on something real and tangible that can be changed.

it's not perfect, but sheesh, the reason so many people oppose isn't that it's wordsmithed in the perfect way, but that so many people view police as a good thing. unless you have a really kickass 3-word slogan that convinces people who currently love the police that they're wrong to do so, you're going to be arguing about whatever it's called

"The cops and cop lovers control the response to any slogan you offer up - no matter how watered down,"

Lol ok nostradamus. You're talking out your ass.

Reaction to BLM has literally nothing to do with any potential reaction to an improved version of DTP.

Yes, these two slogans connected to the same protest movement in response to the same police activities are absolutely unrelated.

"it's not perfect, but sheesh, the reason so many people oppose isn't that it's wordsmithed in the perfect way, "

You missed the post about how when presented differently 70% of a focus group was in favor of defunding the police

GD maybe read the quote I posted? Even the politicians who give them more money get called "cop haters". No slogan, no action will ever be "good enough"

I mean sure maybe alternative messaging won't work. But guess what, the current messaging ALREADY doesn't work. Dismissing the idea of just trying new things out bewilders me

No slogan, no action will ever be "good enough"

Conservatism does have a built-in edge with people who only respond to stimulation of their lizard-brain. You just have to deal with that and find a way forward anyway.

You posted a quote from a cop. I already said who cares about their reactions.

Uh it does work and is working? Where do we get that it doesn’t work in the ways and places it’s being deployed? SPD is (early) in the process of having responsibilities moved and patrol headcount cut in direct response to months of protest explicitly calling for police to be defunded and abolished.

Medicare for all has to be the best slogan.

If you don’t ask you don’t get yknow?

DTP will work best in cities where it's the most useful anyway.

^ also after being under a federal consent decree for a decade and not de-escalating (xp re SPD)

unless you have a really kickass 3-word slogan that convinces people who currently love the police that they're wrong to do so, you're going to be arguing about whatever it's called

"Fuck Tha Police" is open to bipartisan readings.

"it's not perfect, but sheesh, the reason so many people oppose isn't that it's wordsmithed in the perfect way, "

You missed the post about how when presented differently 70% of a focus group was in favor of defunding the police

i actually did see that earlier today!

i'm not talking about a context in which an idea gets to be explained in a full sentence or two for a focus group who is forced to consider the idea for a moment and then give an assessment to an authoritative figure (the focus group runner, who is always named frank luntz). (i am also not talking about 50% vs 70% approval stats from a single focus group)

i'm talking about the context that is much more common, which is DEFUND THE POLICE! or ABOLISH THE POLICE! or BLACK LIVES MATTER! or any other short slogan (the things that ideas become when they are seen and heard on mass market tv and radio).

I mean sure maybe alternative messaging won't work. But guess what, the current messaging ALREADY doesn't work.

Hi, Granny, you've now caught on to the parallel with BLM that I raised. "Defund the police" has existed for less than six months - it happened to fall in an election year when the world was ending. You have no fucking clue how well an organic slogan and movement will work after five months.

BLM was similarly organic.
Would you like to guess how attitudes toward BLM have shifted over time? Would you be surprised to find out that it wasn't a "winning slogan" until the middle of 2018?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/10/upshot/black-lives-matter-attitudes.html

Yet you know exactly how every yet to be created alternative slogan will be received. Do you understand why ppl get annoyed with your arguments?

Have y'all bought a gross ton of DTP t-shirts or something??

Can we just acknowledge something might work for a population and the same thing might not work for another? Hasn't the left abandoned dumb notions of universality in favor of coalition building and intersectionality?

I know how exactly every alternative slogan will be received because the slogan isn't the problem.

Cops don't want to give up their godlike powers. It's that simple. Anything that threatens to do that will be demonized.

When you "demilitarize the police" and that doesn't poll well in a mayoral election next year because the cop union pitched a fit, you gonna change it then?

GD the quote I posted wasn't from a cop, it was from a politician sucking up to them who still got called a "cop hater" and lost his election, speaking to milo's point.

You have no earthly idea what exactly "the problem" is.
I'm done dude. This is like every discussion with you ever.

Can we just acknowledge something might work for a population and the same thing might not work for another? Hasn't the left abandoned dumb notions of universality in favor of coalition building and intersectionality?

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:02 PM (forty-six seconds ago)

yes that is why i am wondering why people itt are objecting to "defund the police" and "abolish the police" as if it has been adopted by the entirety of the left, no member of which is trying any other strategy at all, and is at fault for democrats who don't support it losing elections

thank u harbl

something something Overton Window