Empower the Police! Remove domestic disputes, mental health calls, non-lethal confrontations, etc from their list of responsibilities so they can focus their training on detective work. (This involves reallocating their budgets to fund the agencies more suited to dealing with these tasks and removing those call responsibilities from the police, empowering them to focus on their core function)― DJP, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:12 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglinkobv needs workshopping but this is the general idea, cast taking money away from the police as a good thing for the police― DJP, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
― DJP, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:12 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
obv needs workshopping but this is the general idea, cast taking money away from the police as a good thing for the police
― DJP, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
As DJP said it needs workshopped and we're attempting to convince people who don't read too deeply but I liked this (overly simple) picture posted in response to AOC's thread on DtP
Let me leave a visual depiction. Reading isn't their strongest suit. pic.twitter.com/SFWqZ3Jzhe— Mac Nut 1 (@MacNutOne) November 11, 2020
― ALAB (onimo), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:43 (three years ago) link
forgot that angle! perfect imo
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:49 (three years ago) link
"Stop adversarial policing", "Bring back protect-and-serve policing", "Independent oversight for police", "Teach cops deescalation", "Better police recruitment"... there's all manner of slogans that are more policy accurate and won't spook low-info voters.
― Advanced Doomscroller (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:51 (three years ago) link
Cops have already been taught deescalation. The problem is they want to kill people.
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:53 (three years ago) link
those are materially different things though and already things that nearly every police department brags about doing, save for independent oversight. all of them make the police sound good and neutral.
i am lolling @ VHS being concerned about them losing their jobs. we live in a dystopia where we have a make-work program for violent assholes and we can never hope for anything better.
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:54 (three years ago) link
Cops are unaccountable terrorists suckling at the public teat with union contracts that undermine any and all attempts to hold them accountable for their violent escapades. The police should be abolished.
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:55 (three years ago) link
they are already taught deescalation, implicit bias, etc. in the academy in between learning how to identify "the odor of suspected marijuana" and "furtive movements," and how to do a whren stop. IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE screaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:00 (three years ago) link
Cops and cop lovers are going to respond to any one of those slogans in exactly the same way as they do 'defund' or 'Black Lives Matter.'
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:06 (three years ago) link
otm
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:07 (three years ago) link
i still think they should be paid for their positions, just change all their duties to "play fortnite". give them a few dog parks to shoot their guns in during down time when they need to take breaks from that.
xp yeah they don't need "training" for sure, that's been bogus for decades
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:08 (three years ago) link
If you want a different slogan for some reason related to the message you want to put into the world or for your policy aims or whatever, cool, but don't fool yourself that the response is going to be any better. You have to "educate low-info voters," not "run scared from them."
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:08 (three years ago) link
Alternatively, pick a slogan that's inscrutable to low-info voters. One of the early BLM slogans from late 2014 was "Indict the System". It almost begs readers to allow activists to unpack it for them in positive language.
― Advanced Doomscroller (Sanpaku), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:08 (three years ago) link
yeah i don't know bout that, clear communication is a starting point to being honest with people which is essential imo
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:09 (three years ago) link
sorry i'm kind of shitposting i think i need a break lol
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:10 (three years ago) link
words do matter, and there are lot of "squishies" who don't want to pick a side or make waves. but yeah, it's ACA/Obamacare all over again, where they support the thing but they don't because of racism
― Nhex, Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:11 (three years ago) link
This is ridiculous. Inscrutable meaningless slogans are going to get you nowhere, because no one knows what the fuck you're trying to accomplish.
"Indict the system" sounds like a rejected tagline for a Hackers sequel.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:17 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKIs86NhVno
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:17 (three years ago) link
"Cops and cop lovers"
Who cares about them, unless you think they constitute every single person who is put off by DTP
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:18 (three years ago) link
No I’m worried the only thing some low info voters are going to get from DTP is that cops will lose their jobs, which is a net negative for lots of people who disagree with you on the role of the police and society. I’m 100% for the gradual replacement of the police force by other better suited institutions dedicated to care and uplifting communities, I’m allowed to worry the message is not coming accross. And considering how some posters are taking glee in the idea of unemployment of a whole profession like it wouldn’t have disastrous consequences for the rest of us because they are freaking economic stakeholders outside of their profession, it makes me wonder if this more about shitting on cops than making society better. Milo correctly mentionned a transition period, good luck selling policy that says ‘hey by the way you gotta transition’ when at the tail-end of it there is very little for them.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:26 (three years ago) link
Who cares about them,
Correct.
unless you think they constitute every single person who is put off by DTP
The cops and cop lovers control the response to any slogan you offer up - no matter how watered down, that response is going to be that you want to murder police in their sleep. Thus the slogan doesn't actually matter that much when you're talking about taking away privileges from the pigs.
Black Lives Matter only became somewhat acceptable after years of work and normalization, as will be required of any slogan.
See above:
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:26 (three years ago) link
Disarm the police - OH YOU WANT US TO BE MURDERED BY MS-13Demilitarize the police - OH YOU WANT US TO BE MURDERED BY MS-13Stop adversarial policing - OH YOU WANT US TO CODDLE MS-13 BEFORE THEY MURDER USetc.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:29 (three years ago) link
Listen to The Policecould lead to subversive outcomes
― @oneposter(✔️) (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:31 (three years ago) link
^^ yep totally, this is why doubling down seems like the way forward. "defund not abolish" can be the new slogan
for example:
"...Rose ran to the right on criminal justice policy and made his support for police a hallmark of his campaign. “I think that this is a critical moment where we should be investing in our police even more,” Rose said in an October debate. But even a commitment to more funding for the police did not stop the Sergeants Benevolent Association from calling Rose a “cop-hater”. "
https://theappeal.org/defund-the-police-medicare-for-all/
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:35 (three years ago) link
sorry that was an xp to milo who I agree with 100% here
Well except do abolish the police, don’t not abolish the police
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:36 (three years ago) link
(that guy above lost his race, btw)
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:36 (three years ago) link
and yeah what I was after was more "oh you don't like defund, how about abolish then? does defund sound better now?"
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:38 (three years ago) link
Well that’s just lying to people then
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:38 (three years ago) link
I'm OK with "defund" being the end result compromise while ofc hoping for that fabled Marxist withering away in the end
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:40 (three years ago) link
CAHOOTS for everyone (not the sex shop, sorry map)
Slogans are memes. They tend to become detached from more nuanced explanations as they float around out in the real world, so they need to work in a stand alone context. They can range from purely factual to purely emotional, but they should speak to your intended audience in an unambiguous way about an easily understood (or imagined) consequence that they find either attractive or repellent. Long history suggests that two to seven words is ideal. More than nine words and they fail as slogans.
Disarm the police - OH YOU WANT US TO BE MURDERED BY MS-13...etc.
Yeah. Fear is a potent and easily manipulated emotion. Anyone who believes MS-13 is lurking everywhere ready to pounce, but the police are like faithful guard dogs, is never going to respond positively to any appeal to defund police. They aren't the audience.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:41 (three years ago) link
i am in favor of the government providing jobs for all so i've solved the unemployment problem
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:44 (three years ago) link
Reaction to BLM has literally nothing to do with any potential reaction to an improved version of DTP. Like that's just a shockingly bad argument to make.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:44 (three years ago) link
i haven't read the millions of posts above, but "defund" is obviously already a compromise meant to draw attention to the role of city budgets in all of this - a means of focusing on something real and tangible that can be changed.
it's not perfect, but sheesh, the reason so many people oppose isn't that it's wordsmithed in the perfect way, but that so many people view police as a good thing. unless you have a really kickass 3-word slogan that convinces people who currently love the police that they're wrong to do so, you're going to be arguing about whatever it's called
― @oneposter(✔️) (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:45 (three years ago) link
"The cops and cop lovers control the response to any slogan you offer up - no matter how watered down,"
Lol ok nostradamus. You're talking out your ass.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:46 (three years ago) link
Reaction to BLM has literally nothing to do with any potential reaction to an improved version of DTP.
Yes, these two slogans connected to the same protest movement in response to the same police activities are absolutely unrelated.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:48 (three years ago) link
"it's not perfect, but sheesh, the reason so many people oppose isn't that it's wordsmithed in the perfect way, "
You missed the post about how when presented differently 70% of a focus group was in favor of defunding the police
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:49 (three years ago) link
GD maybe read the quote I posted? Even the politicians who give them more money get called "cop haters". No slogan, no action will ever be "good enough"
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:51 (three years ago) link
I mean sure maybe alternative messaging won't work. But guess what, the current messaging ALREADY doesn't work. Dismissing the idea of just trying new things out bewilders me
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:52 (three years ago) link
No slogan, no action will ever be "good enough"
Conservatism does have a built-in edge with people who only respond to stimulation of their lizard-brain. You just have to deal with that and find a way forward anyway.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:53 (three years ago) link
You posted a quote from a cop. I already said who cares about their reactions.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:54 (three years ago) link
Uh it does work and is working? Where do we get that it doesn’t work in the ways and places it’s being deployed? SPD is (early) in the process of having responsibilities moved and patrol headcount cut in direct response to months of protest explicitly calling for police to be defunded and abolished.
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:54 (three years ago) link
Medicare for all has to be the best slogan.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:54 (three years ago) link
If you don’t ask you don’t get yknow?
DTP will work best in cities where it's the most useful anyway.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:55 (three years ago) link
^ also after being under a federal consent decree for a decade and not de-escalating (xp re SPD)
unless you have a really kickass 3-word slogan that convinces people who currently love the police that they're wrong to do so, you're going to be arguing about whatever it's called
"Fuck Tha Police" is open to bipartisan readings.
― @oneposter (⛰️) (sic), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:55 (three years ago) link
i actually did see that earlier today!
i'm not talking about a context in which an idea gets to be explained in a full sentence or two for a focus group who is forced to consider the idea for a moment and then give an assessment to an authoritative figure (the focus group runner, who is always named frank luntz). (i am also not talking about 50% vs 70% approval stats from a single focus group)
i'm talking about the context that is much more common, which is DEFUND THE POLICE! or ABOLISH THE POLICE! or BLACK LIVES MATTER! or any other short slogan (the things that ideas become when they are seen and heard on mass market tv and radio).
― @oneposter(✔️) (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:56 (three years ago) link
I mean sure maybe alternative messaging won't work. But guess what, the current messaging ALREADY doesn't work.
Hi, Granny, you've now caught on to the parallel with BLM that I raised. "Defund the police" has existed for less than six months - it happened to fall in an election year when the world was ending. You have no fucking clue how well an organic slogan and movement will work after five months.
BLM was similarly organic. Would you like to guess how attitudes toward BLM have shifted over time? Would you be surprised to find out that it wasn't a "winning slogan" until the middle of 2018?https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/10/upshot/black-lives-matter-attitudes.html
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Thursday, 12 November 2020 00:58 (three years ago) link
Yet you know exactly how every yet to be created alternative slogan will be received. Do you understand why ppl get annoyed with your arguments?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 12 November 2020 01:01 (three years ago) link
Have y'all bought a gross ton of DTP t-shirts or something??
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 12 November 2020 01:02 (three years ago) link