I don't want to re-litigate BLM because I think it has finally become well-understood, but it feels like it took so much work just to get people to understand the slogan, and I'm not sure what the point of all that work was.
― DJI, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
this is all so bleak
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:15 (three years ago) link
Lots of countries have very low amount of police murders while having an extensive police force. There’s a bit of exceptionalism in the american left when they refuse to learn from other existing and successful models and go for their own radical situations, bit of the same with the landlord/housing debate. On the other hand, I can’t help but think how permantly baked racism is in the police force and it might be true that it is helpless. I don’t know!
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:15 (three years ago) link
djp otm in that the idea that drew me further toward abolition was thinking about how many jobs the cops have that they aren't qualified for and suck at
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:16 (three years ago) link
Police hate the cities they work in and see themselves as at war with the populations they police. If there are models for denazifying the police let us know.
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
Yep. And the number of teens and young adults with criminal records, needlessly, because a cop intervened during a mental health crisis.
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, November 11, 2020 2:15 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Not to be snide, but read the room.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:18 (three years ago) link
Yeah VHS, tbh you have no idea what you're talking about as regards police in the US. Best to bow out.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:19 (three years ago) link
A lot of the problems with the police are the result of a whole bunch of essential nets being defunded than the cops receiving funds in the first place.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:20 (three years ago) link
a lot of the problems with the police are older than you're suggesting
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:21 (three years ago) link
Left (& others), do you think it's ok to scheme in order to achieve your political aims in the face of unreasonable resistance or does the winning strategy consist of figuring out what's right and meet a priori then unambiguously subscribing to its terms until they become a reality?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:21 (three years ago) link
for the record I am good with "demilitarize the police" and think it has good optics
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:22 (three years ago) link
― Van Horn Street
you realize those two things are directly related, right? Do I really have to post graphs of the grossly disproportionate budgets?
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:23 (three years ago) link
All I'm saying is that standing on it's own 'defunding the policing' is basically an austerity measure that will create more poverty, unless you have somewhere clear in the message that it is first and foremost a transfer of police funds towards better forms of care and institutions, which has discussed right now, is not always evident outside of some circles. That lack of evidence ensure that the message runs a risk of being confused.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:33 (three years ago) link
lmao the police aren’t poor
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:33 (three years ago) link
They can get a real job
“Austerity measure”, the gall.
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:34 (three years ago) link
lol how the fuck is that going to create more poverty? just one of the nearly immediate benefits would be breaking the cycle of court and ticket costs spiraling out of control for low income folks
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:35 (three years ago) link
Other people depend on the police and it's budget for contracts but sure whatever, in some bizzaro world defunding an institution doesn't result in a net money loss for society.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:36 (three years ago) link
Yawn
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:37 (three years ago) link
The now-former police would need jobs, but we can transfer them to the parks department or whatever.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:37 (three years ago) link
it'll be just like that tv show, parks and militarization
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:38 (three years ago) link
This is the "single-payer healthcare would put women of color who work in medical billing" argument redux - yes, there would be a transition. The left recognizes this and plans for helping those displaced workers.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:38 (three years ago) link
well geez, that sold me. somebody might lose a little money on a contract so, never mind, let's just not ask them to change at all.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:39 (three years ago) link
in medical billing out of work*
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:39 (three years ago) link
I'm arguing that some people might see it this way while I'm making clear I understand what's the point of DTP and you guys are jumping on me.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:40 (three years ago) link
That’s the definition of concern trolling
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link
cutting police is austerity was corbyn’s line too. thanks for that, social democrats. btw please no one use the UK police state as a positive example if this is going there
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link
So we have been trolled, you can collect your $5 at the counter xp
i agree with table and vhs. i mean could we just get their guns off them????
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link
keep their 94,000 / year and let them stand around (which is 80% of what they do), just get rid of their fucking guns jesus
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:42 (three years ago) link
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/06/america-police-violence-germany-georgia-britain/612820/
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:42 (three years ago) link
make them learn martial arts and pass sprint tests. de-fat the police. (i'm sorry!!!!!!!)
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:46 (three years ago) link
We are talking about a slow wipeout of billions of dollars, I believe it is not inconsequential. Like milo said, there is going to be a transition, I say the messaging should reassure that funding everything else that has been underfunded for decades (for reasons other than the police dept. budget needs) is smart.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:47 (three years ago) link
Maybe make every officer read a book chosen by the mayor every year and discuss it
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:47 (three years ago) link
When not reading they can do some gardening
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:48 (three years ago) link
do a "make libraries rich" program and put "funds come from the police" in fine print
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:48 (three years ago) link
for americans, i feel like the difference between police and, say, ICE, is that ICE is the neighbor's abusive husband and police is your own.
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:56 (three years ago) link
*white* americans
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:57 (three years ago) link
everyone here knows about CAHOOTS right? I mean, I think we all agree this is the direction we want to go in terms of how to *start* defunding the police (even if that's not what we end up calling it)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/cahoots-replace-police-mental-health-trnd/index.html
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:57 (three years ago) link
yeah, it's actually been implemented in places. denver put in something like that this summer i think.
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:59 (three years ago) link
though slc would have to find another name for it as CAHOOTS is the name of everyone's favorite sex shop
xp yes!! so proud of Eugene for spreading that model
wait what
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:00 (three years ago) link
oh I misread that as "sic", carry on and LMAO
make the police compete with a new public safety office full of people who don't have guns and have empathy training.
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:01 (three years ago) link
xp it's true
google cahoots slc
oh I bet! that was a genuine LMAO
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:02 (three years ago) link
hehe
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:02 (three years ago) link
go with COHORTS maybe? altho that has kinda unsavory implications to me
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 23:03 (three years ago) link