What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

I disagree in the case of BLM.

DTP sounds radical. It IS radical. The Left continually swings for the fences and then wonders why they strike out. Start with smaller goals. Like table said, might result in fewer police murders if a temporary compromise is baked into the messaging.

People who are pro-abolition trying to figure out ways to get further toward the goal by switching messaging isn't bad faith. It's being fucking practical because people are dying and communities are suffering.

I have two ACAB tattoos, have been arrested numerous times, and fucking hate the police, and I think it's a good idea to try alternate approaches.

To be honest, might be as simple as switching it to a more positive verb.

Empower the Police! Remove domestic disputes, mental health calls, non-lethal confrontations, etc from their list of responsibilities so they can focus their training on detective work. (This involves reallocating their budgets to fund the agencies more suited to dealing with these tasks and removing those call responsibilities from the police, empowering them to focus on their core function)

obv needs workshopping but this is the general idea, cast taking money away from the police as a good thing for the police

I would accept “legalize crime!”

I don't want to re-litigate BLM because I think it has finally become well-understood, but it feels like it took so much work just to get people to understand the slogan, and I'm not sure what the point of all that work was.

this is all so bleak

Lots of countries have very low amount of police murders while having an extensive police force. There’s a bit of exceptionalism in the american left when they refuse to learn from other existing and successful models and go for their own radical situations, bit of the same with the landlord/housing debate. On the other hand, I can’t help but think how permantly baked racism is in the police force and it might be true that it is helpless. I don’t know!

djp otm in that the idea that drew me further toward abolition was thinking about how many jobs the cops have that they aren't qualified for and suck at

Police hate the cities they work in and see themselves as at war with the populations they police. If there are models for denazifying the police let us know.

Yep. And the number of teens and young adults with criminal records, needlessly, because a cop intervened during a mental health crisis.

this is all so bleak

― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, November 11, 2020 2:15 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not to be snide, but read the room.

Yeah VHS, tbh you have no idea what you're talking about as regards police in the US. Best to bow out.

A lot of the problems with the police are the result of a whole bunch of essential nets being defunded than the cops receiving funds in the first place.

a lot of the problems with the police are older than you're suggesting

Left (& others), do you think it's ok to scheme in order to achieve your political aims in the face of unreasonable resistance or does the winning strategy consist of figuring out what's right and meet a priori then unambiguously subscribing to its terms until they become a reality?

for the record I am good with "demilitarize the police" and think it has good optics

A lot of the problems with the police are the result of a whole bunch of essential nets being defunded than the cops receiving funds in the first place.

― Van Horn Street

you realize those two things are directly related, right? Do I really have to post graphs of the grossly disproportionate budgets?

All I'm saying is that standing on it's own 'defunding the policing' is basically an austerity measure that will create more poverty, unless you have somewhere clear in the message that it is first and foremost a transfer of police funds towards better forms of care and institutions, which has discussed right now, is not always evident outside of some circles. That lack of evidence ensure that the message runs a risk of being confused.

lmao the police aren’t poor

They can get a real job

“Austerity measure”, the gall.

lol how the fuck is that going to create more poverty? just one of the nearly immediate benefits would be breaking the cycle of court and ticket costs spiraling out of control for low income folks

Other people depend on the police and it's budget for contracts but sure whatever, in some bizzaro world defunding an institution doesn't result in a net money loss for society.

Yawn

The now-former police would need jobs, but we can transfer them to the parks department or whatever.

it'll be just like that tv show, parks and militarization

This is the "single-payer healthcare would put women of color who work in medical billing" argument redux - yes, there would be a transition. The left recognizes this and plans for helping those displaced workers.

well geez, that sold me. somebody might lose a little money on a contract so, never mind, let's just not ask them to change at all.

in medical billing out of work*

I'm arguing that some people might see it this way while I'm making clear I understand what's the point of DTP and you guys are jumping on me.

That’s the definition of concern trolling

cutting police is austerity was corbyn’s line too. thanks for that, social democrats. btw please no one use the UK police state as a positive example if this is going there

So we have been trolled, you can collect your $5 at the counter xp

i agree with table and vhs. i mean could we just get their guns off them????

keep their 94,000 / year and let them stand around (which is 80% of what they do), just get rid of their fucking guns jesus

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/06/america-police-violence-germany-georgia-britain/612820/

make them learn martial arts and pass sprint tests. de-fat the police. (i'm sorry!!!!!!!)

well geez, that sold me. somebody might lose a little money on a contract so, never mind, let's just not ask them to change at all.

We are talking about a slow wipeout of billions of dollars, I believe it is not inconsequential. Like milo said, there is going to be a transition, I say the messaging should reassure that funding everything else that has been underfunded for decades (for reasons other than the police dept. budget needs) is smart.

Maybe make every officer read a book chosen by the mayor every year and discuss it

When not reading they can do some gardening

do a "make libraries rich" program and put "funds come from the police" in fine print

for americans, i feel like the difference between police and, say, ICE, is that ICE is the neighbor's abusive husband and police is your own.

*white* americans

everyone here knows about CAHOOTS right? I mean, I think we all agree this is the direction we want to go in terms of how to *start* defunding the police (even if that's not what we end up calling it)

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/cahoots-replace-police-mental-health-trnd/index.html

yeah, it's actually been implemented in places. denver put in something like that this summer i think.

though slc would have to find another name for it as CAHOOTS is the name of everyone's favorite sex shop

xp yes!! so proud of Eugene for spreading that model

wait what

oh I misread that as "sic", carry on and LMAO