How about 'Terrorize the police'?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:58 (three years ago) link
That's the quiet part you don't say loudly.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:59 (three years ago) link
I feel like "demilitarize the police" is a good baby step on the path to abolition for those wishy washy folks
― Fetchboy, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
Trolling aside, 'Demilitarize the police' has a better ring to it imo.
xp
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:01 (three years ago) link
In tandem with 'Defund the military'.
To be honest, might be as simple as switching it to a more positive verb.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:02 (three years ago) link
ppl certainly not acting in good faith when they pretend their objection is not only about the phrase more than the sentiment, but about *other people’s* potential response to the phrase, and certainly nothing to do with their own interests. serious case of pundit brain
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:04 (three years ago) link
Defund the police sounds like a whole lot of people losing their jobs.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
good
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
demilitarize the police seems to not imply disarmament, which should also be one of the compromises, if we must continue to have police (imo we musn't)
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
Well I mean we don't need to imagine other people's "potential" reactions when we have their actual reactions to go on
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
but that’s not what it is!
ppl certainly not acting in good faith
Left, I'm certain that you are very certain about other ppl's bad faith.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:07 (three years ago) link
Fund Our Future (with money taken from police budgets)
― Fetchboy, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:07 (three years ago) link
also police militarization seems like a relatively recent phenomenon. whereas police brutality is extremely not new
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:09 (three years ago) link
Seems like BLM and DTP are both slogans designed more to create an in-group than a coalition.
― DJI, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:09 (three years ago) link
I disagree in the case of BLM.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:09 (three years ago) link
DTP sounds radical. It IS radical. The Left continually swings for the fences and then wonders why they strike out. Start with smaller goals. Like table said, might result in fewer police murders if a temporary compromise is baked into the messaging.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:10 (three years ago) link
People who are pro-abolition trying to figure out ways to get further toward the goal by switching messaging isn't bad faith. It's being fucking practical because people are dying and communities are suffering.
I have two ACAB tattoos, have been arrested numerous times, and fucking hate the police, and I think it's a good idea to try alternate approaches.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:12 (three years ago) link
Empower the Police! Remove domestic disputes, mental health calls, non-lethal confrontations, etc from their list of responsibilities so they can focus their training on detective work. (This involves reallocating their budgets to fund the agencies more suited to dealing with these tasks and removing those call responsibilities from the police, empowering them to focus on their core function)
― DJP, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:12 (three years ago) link
obv needs workshopping but this is the general idea, cast taking money away from the police as a good thing for the police
― DJP, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
I would accept “legalize crime!”
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
I don't want to re-litigate BLM because I think it has finally become well-understood, but it feels like it took so much work just to get people to understand the slogan, and I'm not sure what the point of all that work was.
― DJI, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
this is all so bleak
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:15 (three years ago) link
Lots of countries have very low amount of police murders while having an extensive police force. There’s a bit of exceptionalism in the american left when they refuse to learn from other existing and successful models and go for their own radical situations, bit of the same with the landlord/housing debate. On the other hand, I can’t help but think how permantly baked racism is in the police force and it might be true that it is helpless. I don’t know!
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:15 (three years ago) link
djp otm in that the idea that drew me further toward abolition was thinking about how many jobs the cops have that they aren't qualified for and suck at
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:16 (three years ago) link
Police hate the cities they work in and see themselves as at war with the populations they police. If there are models for denazifying the police let us know.
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
Yep. And the number of teens and young adults with criminal records, needlessly, because a cop intervened during a mental health crisis.
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, November 11, 2020 2:15 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Not to be snide, but read the room.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:18 (three years ago) link
Yeah VHS, tbh you have no idea what you're talking about as regards police in the US. Best to bow out.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:19 (three years ago) link
A lot of the problems with the police are the result of a whole bunch of essential nets being defunded than the cops receiving funds in the first place.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:20 (three years ago) link
a lot of the problems with the police are older than you're suggesting
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:21 (three years ago) link
Left (& others), do you think it's ok to scheme in order to achieve your political aims in the face of unreasonable resistance or does the winning strategy consist of figuring out what's right and meet a priori then unambiguously subscribing to its terms until they become a reality?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:21 (three years ago) link
for the record I am good with "demilitarize the police" and think it has good optics
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:22 (three years ago) link
― Van Horn Street
you realize those two things are directly related, right? Do I really have to post graphs of the grossly disproportionate budgets?
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:23 (three years ago) link
All I'm saying is that standing on it's own 'defunding the policing' is basically an austerity measure that will create more poverty, unless you have somewhere clear in the message that it is first and foremost a transfer of police funds towards better forms of care and institutions, which has discussed right now, is not always evident outside of some circles. That lack of evidence ensure that the message runs a risk of being confused.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:33 (three years ago) link
lmao the police aren’t poor
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:33 (three years ago) link
They can get a real job
“Austerity measure”, the gall.
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:34 (three years ago) link
lol how the fuck is that going to create more poverty? just one of the nearly immediate benefits would be breaking the cycle of court and ticket costs spiraling out of control for low income folks
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:35 (three years ago) link
Other people depend on the police and it's budget for contracts but sure whatever, in some bizzaro world defunding an institution doesn't result in a net money loss for society.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:36 (three years ago) link
Yawn
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:37 (three years ago) link
The now-former police would need jobs, but we can transfer them to the parks department or whatever.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:37 (three years ago) link
it'll be just like that tv show, parks and militarization
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:38 (three years ago) link
This is the "single-payer healthcare would put women of color who work in medical billing" argument redux - yes, there would be a transition. The left recognizes this and plans for helping those displaced workers.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:38 (three years ago) link
well geez, that sold me. somebody might lose a little money on a contract so, never mind, let's just not ask them to change at all.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:39 (three years ago) link
in medical billing out of work*
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:39 (three years ago) link
I'm arguing that some people might see it this way while I'm making clear I understand what's the point of DTP and you guys are jumping on me.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:40 (three years ago) link
That’s the definition of concern trolling
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link
cutting police is austerity was corbyn’s line too. thanks for that, social democrats. btw please no one use the UK police state as a positive example if this is going there
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link