Like like the the the POLL: SILVER JEWS = American Water

But Malkmus’s voice (and guitar) is all over the early records...

yeah maybe this is a thing where if your first SJ was Starlite Walker, or the early stuff, that's one way. but if your first intro was the Natural Bridge, or anything *after* American Water, you might vibe on the band different. he was there at the start. . .

Yeah theres something to that. I cant remember what my first one was, but I know I'd heard pavement first so that was definitely a thing in my head when absorbing SJ for the first time. SMs guitar always made perfect sense, but hearing a voice other than DBs on threw me off for a long time. Even the songs where Carrie sings felt weird to me the first times i heard them, the cognitive dissonance of being in David Berman's head and suddenly then hearing someone other than him.

Keep in mind that Malkmus & Nastanovich were pissed & hurt when Berman went off and made a record without them. They felt like he had “broke up the band.” That’s how much of a unit they were (at least to those guys).

(You may find that unfair, as they had another successful band, but regardless...)

def something to that.

i love DCB more than just about anything and Silver Jews was his thing, but for me SM's presence on Starlite Walker and American Water is, as morrisp says, core to the sound.

and i hopped on board w/ Starlite Walker. i can see how if you did so later, SM might feel intrusive on the older stuff.

yeah i know the history, and i love all of american water now, but i dunno i also think that regardless of SMs key importance to the DNA of that sound, at the end of the day the platonic ideal of SJ was just not a duet/bg vox kind of band, in my mind. Its like hearing Eno sing on Remain in Light, for me - it works in the context of how the band and there sound are operating, but theres also always a part of my brain that goes "oh huh - that guys here too, i guess". Its interesting - especially with songwriter type stuff theres definitely something about hearing multiple voices on a song that changes the alchemy of it for a listener (beyond just "this story is being told by two people" or "this part carries special emphasis because someone is singing along with the lead"). I'll have to think about it.

Just to counter some of the anachronistic revisionism ITT, from a 1994 interview with DCB & BN:

BN: Pavement is mainly Steve’s songwriting. It’s the principal reason for the band existing. Whereas Silver Jews there’s a totally different guy serving the same role. It’s a totally different thing, and Steven is really good friends with David and he’s a really good guitar player. He really enjoys David’s writing, and having the freedom to just jam on guitar and his responsibilities in Silver Jews are absolutely minimal. It’s totally great for him to relax. For me, the best two times I’ve ever been on stage have been the two nights we played the Drag City Invitational. There was an intense pressure, and I felt that I was an extremely important part of the band. In Pavement, my role has always been soley live, and pretty much to add spirit and enthusiasm; musically, it’s no where near as important as when I’m in the Silver Jews. I have far greater input in Silver Jews. With the new album, we had 12 sheets of paper with lyrics on them and we basically wrote songs around those words.

DCB: Exactly. Yeah, now, for the last couple years it’s been mostly songs that either I’ve written beforehand or Steve and I sat down for a little bit and worked something out more clearly. Because none of that stuff we recorded in the house, which came out on records, was… we were just recording for our own pleasure, you know. We all worked really hard jobs and it was really tense living where we did, and it was fun for us at night to just howl. Afterwards, it became songwriting.

CB: So how did Pavement work out of all this? Were the Silver Jews playing together first?

DCB: Well, we played a lot together in college, but we didn’t call ourselves the Silver Jews. Steve went home and brought up Pavement, just after he graduated from college.

CB: So kind of?

DCB: Well, in a way, technically, on a time-line, yes, first. But, Pavement’s always been what Steve does and that’s him. Pavement is Steve. Silver Jews as at least until recently, three friends getting together and making music.

CB: So you sort of play the role that Steve does in Pavement in the Silver Jews, you’re more the-

DCB: Well, on this record especially. I wrote all the songs. Steve is good to have around because he’s a complete song stylist and I can bring even a really lame song out and he can polish anything up with what he does. He can make anything into gold. Now, he likes to take more of a backseat, and it’s good for me because I’ve gotten to the point where I have a vision of what I want things to be like whereas before I didn’t. I knew what I wanted this record to be like. I knew exactly what I wanted…

https://tomsugden.github.io/cordsuit//articles/cool-beans-interview.html

i'm pretty sure i heard American Water before i spent much time (if any) with Pavement.

Silver Jews-style Malkmus is still my favorite

guys i get sm's role in the history of silver jews, v familiar with the stories of these bands. it took me a while to get into the presence of vox by someone other than the primary songwriter /= revisionist history

This to me is the <3 of American Water

Steve is good to have around because he’s a complete song stylist and I can bring even a really lame song out and he can polish anything up with what he does. He can make anything into gold.

who’s BN?

bob nastanovich, i think

Fwiw it’s strictly a voice thing for me; i love Steve’s guitar all over American water. the solo on random rules is perfect. even like the goofy wah pedal on People

that quotes interesting.. it’s so hard for me to imagine Dave writing federal dust tho. the whole vocal melody and rhythm of it is so Steve. Blue arrangements too

Malkmus has writing credits on both of those tracks fwiw.

(as well as Gate Pratt on "Honk")

For me it's probably just that I grew tired of Malkmus, fairly or not. I started with S&E and Starlite Walker as a schoolkid but have entered a long refractory period during which I don't really want to hear him, especially late Pavement. Maybe American Water gives off occasional Brighten the Corners vibes or something. It doesn't necessarily make much sense as I don't think I'm ever not in the mood for Starlite Walker.

American Water is miles better than Brighten The Corners.

Even Malkmus thought so!

(Or maybe he said that about terror twilight, I don’t remember)

American Water is better than Terror Twilight as well!

yeah american water is better than 2.5-3 pavement albums

it's better than the last two, that's it tho

I'm a huge Pavement fan and pretty much love all their albums, but I love American Water even more.

Oh my god there is so much gold in the interview Al linked upthread.

David: Yeah, really. What am I afraid of? I’m really afraid of hurting people. I’m really afraid of my car breaking down. I’m really afraid of dying before I get things done. I’m really afraid of my landlord’s wife.

CB: Why?

David: She’s a battleaxe, she’s like a lot of people in Northampton. She’s just really really harsh. They live next door, so I always hear her outside. She was yelling this morning at her grandson. Her grandson has this little stuffed owl and she was saying “The owl goes ‘hoot!’” and she asked her grandson “Now what does the owl say? ” and her grandson didn’t say anything, he was really quiet. She says “WHAT DOES THE OWL SAY? ” and her grandson didn’t say anything and so she said “THE OWL SAYS ‘HOOT!’ WHAT DOES THE OWL SAY?!!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xug9Ty0FD0

Singing:
Elisa Ambrogio, Meg Baird, Cassie Berman, Bill Callahan, Ben Chasny, Bill MacKay, Haley Fohr, David Grubbs, Cory Hanson, Emmett Kelly, Matt Kinsey, Sean O’Hagan, Will Oldham, David Pajo, Todd Rittmann, Alasdair Roberts, Matt Sweeney, Mick Turner, George Xylouris, Azita Youssefi.

Featuring:
Bill Callahan, Bonnie 'Prince' Billy, Cassie Berman, Boneman the dog, David Grubbs, Bill MacKay, George Xylouris, Shelagh Hannan, Apollonia Xylouris, Fred Somsen, Sue Ng-Espada, Matt Kinsey, Tony Crow, Azita Youssefi, Caitlin Rose Mahoney, Cory Hanson, Brett Sova, David Pajo.

!!!

Wonder why Malkmus declined or wasn't asked?

Anyways, I was just thinking the other day of how incredible the American Water band was:

DCB: vox/guitar
SM: guitar/vox
Mike Fellows (Rites Of Spring/Happy Go Licky/Royal Trux/Drag City house band): bass
Tim Barnes (The Essex Green/Drag City house band): drums
Chris Stroffolino: keys/organ

haha, clever video. I really like the part where the stuntman contemplates a better burrito

Oh man, I'm not sure where to put this but since I just posted about him a few weeks ago on this thread:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/tim-barnes-medical-expenses

On a lighter note, the painter of the album cover found a photograph of the original cover painting (tho in the comments he mentions that the painting is probably in a landfill or given away):

https://www.instagram.com/p/CI5q152l7yF/

25 years / 46k beers

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyoGeQhvmMF/

Those NY Press ads are fantastic!

NY ‘98, what a time to be alive

“Night Society” remains straight Fire