Poll: Bandwagonesque v. Nevermind v. Loveless

Here was Spin's 1991 list:

Teenage Fanclub - Bandwagonesque
R.E.M. - Out Of Time
Nirvana - Nevermind
Pixies - Trompe le Monde
Pet Shop Boys - Discography
Robyn Hitchcock - Perspex Island
Public Enemy - Apocalypse '91: The Enemy Strikes Black
Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger
Smashing Pumpkins - Gish
P.M. Dawn - Of The Heart, Of The Soul And Of The Cross: The Utopian Experience
Metallica - Metallica
Massive Attack - Blue Lines
Fugazi - Steady Diet Of Nothing
Urge Overkill - The Supersonic Storybook
Pearl Jam - Ten
Seal - Seal
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
Mudhoney - Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge
Guns N' Roses - Use Your Illusion I And II
Hole - Pretty On The Inside

Out of Time? They're Out of (Their) Mind.

That Urge Overkill disc was pretty good, tho imo.

Yeah, I thought that too. Had forgotten when the UO album came out.

In 1990 they had Catholic Education at #7, so really what could they do but put the follow-up at #1.

...and much as I love him, that Robyn Hitchcock album really blows.

Rolling Stone Two Star review of Bandwagonesque:

Alternative Rock is dead; long live demographics. Since virtually all of the great late-Seventies and early-Eighties independent labels got snatched up by the big boys, the sound that once shook the underground has been touted – and accepted – as the latest groovy thing for going on ten years now. The elements have barely budged – enigmatic band names, droning guitars, pretty melodies and exhausted male singers.

Far from the freshness and punch of its previous effort, A Catholic Education, Teenage Fanclub seems to have lapsed into an alternative-rock coma. Bandwagonesque has not a single musical surprise in store: From the pop-culture in-jokes ("Pet Rock," the wordless "Is This Music?") to the faux spiritualism ("Star Sign," "Guiding Star") to the halfhearted stabs at irony ("The Concept," "Metal Baby"), each song lopes along at a slowish midtempo, made more endless by high, thin vocals and moments of decorative guitar feedback. And it's all repetitive repetitive repetitive.

The huge record labels have an excuse to call such homogenized product "alternative" – they're notoriously out of touch. The fans who reject Poison's or Amy Grant's image because those artists are obviously packaged and marketed with numbers-crunching calculation will happily fork over the $12.99 for Teenage Fanclub's equally persuasive images – eye-searing fluorescents and fisheye-lens photos of the unsmiling, unkempt band members. But these pleasantly innocuous melodies are alternative to nothing, certainly not to their antecedents – Bernie Taupin, Kansas and nursery rhymes. Still not convinced? Try singing Boston's "More Than a Feeling" to the tune of "Smells Like Teen Spirit." (RS 623)

ARION BERGER

other albums from 1991 that were better than nevermind:

varttina - oi dai

mano negra - king of bongo

old - lo flux tube

gorguts - considered dead

mekons - the curse of the mekons

nova mob - last days of pompeii

terminator x - terminator x & the valley of the jeep beats

son of bazerk - bazerk bazerk bazerk

julian cope - peggy suicide

neil young - weld

main source - breaking atoms

organized konfusion - s/t

immolation - dawn of possession

cathedral - forest of equilibrium

the obsessed - lunar womb

cranes - wings of joy

diamanda galas - plague mass

this mortal coil - blood

dog faced hermans - mental blocks for all ages

the young gods - play kurt weill

fear of god - within the veil

born against - nine patriotic hymns for children

fudge tunnel - hate songs in e minor

last crack - burning time

roxette - joyride

heidi berry - love

skin chamber - wound

chubb rock - the one

thee hypnotics - soul, glitter & sin

Son of Bazerk still gets regular play in my house.

that nova mob album is not better than nevermind, shit it's not even better than loveless.

i love that album! it's one of my favorite albums of the 90's!

weird.

it's the only solo husker du thing i've ever owned or heard too.

it makes me sad. and sometimes it feels triumphant to me. i like that it's about the sadness of history. the production is a little wonky at times, but it doesn't bother me.

Scott, you should try Grant Hart's solo stuff. His 1999 disc -- Good News for Modern Man -- is great. (xp)

Haven't heard Nova Mob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfx7tvGisbA

it's not for everybody. the pompeii one. i think you either feel it or you don't.

o_0 at that Rolling Stone review of Bandwagonesque.

Tempted to vote Bandwagonesque cuz that's what I actually listen to the most and has the most sentimental value, but really its not a patch on the impenetrability of Loveless. Nevermind way way way far behind the other two.

scott that roxette album is not better than nevermind or bandwagonesque. loveless maybe, but only maybe

1991 was just the most musically disillusioning year for me in my entire life. And that had to do with exactly two factors: I was eighteen, and indie bands were streamlining their sound and signing to majors.

And in both instances, you grew up and realized you were wrong.

Yes and no. Certainly I'm the first to admit that at 18, I didn't like seeing bands groom themselves for success. But then, at 36, I still don't. I just understand the whole process better now.

Anyone who disagrees with the following is a moron: Bleach > Nevermind. Justice > Black Album. Mind is a Terrible Thing > Psalm 69. Nothingface > Angel Rat.

Also, I saw Nirvana live pre and post Nevermind and I can personally attest to the fact that their live show suffered immediately.

DRAIN YOU

I would signing with a big label is usually a big idea unless that label requires you to change your style. Usually it means nothing else than bigger budgets and bigger budgets=better music.

bigger budgets=better music

They can mean that, but I'm sure that's not always true.

impenetrability of Loveless.

why is impenetrability a virtue on its own?

I was 18 and I think all of these came out during my first term at university.

Loveless - this is the album I was eagerly waiting for and easily my favourite of these three, but at the time I felt a bit underwhelmed by it (not because it was bad, it just seemed a bit *less* experimental than the Glider & Tremelo EPs that had come out before it).

Bandwagonesque - I couldn't really understand why people were raving about this. It's very bland. I didn't dislike the group and I loved 'Everything Flows', but this just seemed a bit dull and polished. Worst of the three, haven't heard anything off it for years and years.

Nevermind - Again, I didn't actually think Nirvana were bad, but I was mystified by how massive they became, and (much like Oasis a few years later) I grew to dislike them because they were so hyped and omnipresent. They didn't seem to be doing anything special or significantly different from what was already around, but somehow took over the world for a year or two.

i know what you mean about nirvana and the hype but at least they made decent melodic indie rock whereas oasis just made totally forgettable retro-rock without any interest at all. me too i thought bandwagonesque was bland and boring but it isn't. it is absolutely wonderful. behind all that polish and blandness there are wonderful melodies and a lot of noise. whereas loveless is a noise record with the tunes hidden behidn the noise, bandwagonesque is a pop record with the noise hidden within the beautiful harmonies and melodies.

why is impenetrability a virtue on its own?

mm I guess because no matter how many times you listen to it, there is always more to hear

more what, go-nowhere fuzzy guitar strumming and marble mouthed moaning?

its just one of those records where its endlessly absorbing trying to figure out exactly what is going on, how the sounds are being made (even tho I know Shields' guitar set-up was not especially complicated). its the same with Phil Spector's 60s singles - everything is so smashed into this mono mess, things blur together in a unique way.

I am aware these are not particularly profound or novel observations about MBVs sound but whatevs

spectors 60s singles had hooks and shit tho.

"more what, go-nowhere fuzzy guitar strumming and marble mouthed moaning?"

you tell 'em, chuck! hey, wait...

spectors 60s singles had hooks and shit tho.

eh, there are hooks in the MBV stuff. I think the bigger difference is that Spector loved a) really, propulsive, strong rhythm sections and percussion and b) singers and Kevin Shields wasn't interested in either of those things, really.

some folks here in need of a raggetting

i think a lot of my loveless hate comes down to two things. a) the drum sound (and to a lesser degree the production in general) and b) that everyone had built it up for me so much that when i finally heard it, age fourteen or fifteen i guess, i just couldn't hear anything revelatory or mindblowing in it at all. and i was into other other guitar-noise-rock bands at the time!--the sonic youths were my favorite band, and i was getting really into stuff like flying saucer attack & bardo pond. my first listen to the Dead C's "Trapdoor Fucking Exit" was a lot more impressive and memorable than the pile of thin pink goo that is the loveless experience.

"the sonic youths" - I must have missed them

dude come on over and listen to my u.k. pressing of loveless really loud. sounds great! and it's not thin at all. the bass is totally in yer face.

isn't anything, that album always sounded bad to me. i had a u.s. pressing and a cd of it and it always just sounded like a rehearsal for loveless. the feed me with your kiss u.k. 12 inch i have sounds MASSIVE. so great. the album version is so pitiful in comparison.

"the sonic youth":
http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/lp/lp05a.jpg

also read "youths" as rhyming with "soothes."

i do think loveless has hooks. it's really pretty catchy. and i just like how it sounds. i might even love how it sounds. and i like those singles that go with that album. it really DOES sound great loud. i wish i had a copy here to play now, actually.

loveless has ENORMOUS hooks, and hooks within hooks, etc amen

there is one memorable loveless song and it is "Sometimes." that song i really liked, and like.

is that because "sometimes" is a lot sparser than the others? it seems to operate along more of a single melody than the other tracks, which bend and soar and dive all at once in (imo glorious) guitar-chaos

i mean, "when you sleep" for instance has hooks a mile wide but Shields piles on layer after tremeloed layer on top of them, an effect which for me strengthens the hook, but might for someone else detract from it

fwiw "loomer" is my loveless favourite, that chorus is elemental, even if (especially if) it does sound like it's being played underwater

I'm guessing the people who are listing 20+ albums they're claiming are "better than Nevermind" probably haven't listened to it since 1991.

Seriously.. Heart In Motion?? Use Your Illusion???

Also the 2nd half of Nevermind has Lounge Act, Stay Away and On A Plain which are all badass.. I'm not sure what anyone is talking about with how it's a poorly sequenced record.. Up until this thread, I've never heard a single person use this argument against Nevermind.

"Loomer" is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.. I wish it was longer than 2:40.

there is one memorable loveless song and it is "Sometimes." that song i really liked, and like.

the best songs on Loveless sound like they should be on Souvaki ("Sometimes" and "When you Sleep"). In my opinion, Souvlaki is a far better album, and one I return to much more than Loveless.

I can't really comment on the sequencing of Nevermind (haven't really ever ingested it as an album per se) but I do have major qualms with the thin production. They were promising a remixed "heavier" 10th anniversary edition, but that never happened. I'm still holding out for this to occur so I can enjoy it. I think the songwriting is great. But the sound is pretty lame... especially following a budget recording that is so much meatier and more satisfying.