Poll: Bandwagonesque v. Nevermind v. Loveless

in the court of the crimson king?

i don't think you're mapping these the same way i am

Loveless is the only one that can hold my attention after many repeated listens over the years.

Always reminded me of Jesus & Mary Chain with the hooks taken out.

That was actually my first impression of Loveless as well, until I realized shortly after that they were trying for something different, more like Cocteau Twins with feedback and fuzz. I was 17-18 when I had this realization, which was 17 years ago.

1991 was just the most musically disillusioning year for me in my entire life. And that had to do with exactly two factors: I was eighteen, and indie bands were streamlining their sound and signing to majors.

Nirvana Nevermind, Metallica Black Album, Voivod Angel Rat, and Ministry Psalm 69 all made me want to strangle the artists involved. Of those four, Angel Rat is the only one I've ever owned.

This is not an attempt to look cool or precocious. It's simply the state of mind I was in at that age that year. Nirvana Bleach (and tour) were big deals for me. Nevermind was a big disappointment.

And fwiw, I didn't get into Loveless until way later and I still think it's a nice listen more than a revelation/masterpiece. Stereolab writes better songs than MBV for crying out loud, and they usually only need one riff and one beat to do it!

1991 was just the most musically disillusioning year for me in my entire life. And that had to do with exactly two factors: I was eighteen, and indie bands were streamlining their sound and signing to majors.

So . . . Bandwagonesque or Loveless, I take it? They were both released on Creation Records, an indie label.

Voivod Angel Rat

This is actually a great album! Can't believe I left it off my list above (which btw was not done from memory; it's from a file on my desktop.) Though I can see how some people who loved all of Voivod's earlier, more convoluted stuff may have heard it as a betrayal. (I like their early stuff, too, but Angel Rat is still easily one of my favorites.)

it's historical if you're over 40 or under 20 or so, it seems like

I don't get this. Wouldn't people now in their 30s be more likely to feel it was a life-changing album, not less? (Though maybe I don't understand what you mean by "historical." I mean, it's obviously a historical album. It'd be idiotic to argue otherwise. I just don't think it's a great one.)

it has to be 'bandwagonesque', I mean, come on, look at who they inspired--the diggers, swiss family orbison, superstar, some people bought some bmx bandits records that may have not--that is quite a legacy.

xhuxk sorry by 'historical' i mean "part of the vast dead apparatus of history that speaks not to me on my own level", i guess that wasn't immediately apparent by my choice of the word 'historical'

So . . . Bandwagonesque or Loveless, I take it? They were both released on Creation Records, an indie label.

"indie" in UK has a diff. meaning, this is one of the oldest argts to have tho I'm sure you know this. MBV got an advance higher than most indie labels could even count in '91.

whiney do you really think Grunge Geir is a good look?

just teasin' btw, all love y'know

1991 was just the most musically disillusioning year for me in my entire life. And that had to do with exactly two factors: I was eighteen, and indie bands were streamlining their sound and signing to majors.

And in both instances, you grew up and realized you were wrong.

I like Loveless because the songs sound like they were on mushrooms

also why I like Coil btw

Trompe Le Monde is insanely better than most of the records that came out in 1991 or since for that matter.

― Adam Bruneau, Sunday, July 5, 2009 11:09 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

love that album so

lol The Face magazine didn't think kurdt was kute enough. their 1991 album list:

1 Massive Attack - Blue Lines
2 Primal Scream - Screamadelica
3 Young Disciples - Road To Freedom
4 PM Dawn - Of The Heart, Of The Soul And Of The Cross: The Utopian Experience
5 St Etienne - Fox Base Alpha
6 Seal - Seal
7 REM - Out Of Time
8 Omar - There's Nothing Like This
9 Prince - Diamonds And Pearls
10 Galliano - In Search Of The Thirteenth Note
11 Lenny Kravitz - Mama Said
12 Pet Shop Boys - Discography
13 Dream Warriors - And Now The Legacy Begins
14 The KLF - The White Room
l5 Ultra Nate - Blue Notes From The Basement
16 Public Enemy - Apocalypse '91
17 Various Artists - Paradiso
18 808 State - Ex:el
19 Teenage Fanclub - Bandwagonesque
20 A Tribe Called Quest - The Law End Theory

Here was Spin's 1991 list:

Teenage Fanclub - Bandwagonesque
R.E.M. - Out Of Time
Nirvana - Nevermind
Pixies - Trompe le Monde
Pet Shop Boys - Discography
Robyn Hitchcock - Perspex Island
Public Enemy - Apocalypse '91: The Enemy Strikes Black
Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger
Smashing Pumpkins - Gish
P.M. Dawn - Of The Heart, Of The Soul And Of The Cross: The Utopian Experience
Metallica - Metallica
Massive Attack - Blue Lines
Fugazi - Steady Diet Of Nothing
Urge Overkill - The Supersonic Storybook
Pearl Jam - Ten
Seal - Seal
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
Mudhoney - Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge
Guns N' Roses - Use Your Illusion I And II
Hole - Pretty On The Inside

Out of Time? They're Out of (Their) Mind.

That Urge Overkill disc was pretty good, tho imo.

Yeah, I thought that too. Had forgotten when the UO album came out.

In 1990 they had Catholic Education at #7, so really what could they do but put the follow-up at #1.

...and much as I love him, that Robyn Hitchcock album really blows.

Rolling Stone Two Star review of Bandwagonesque:

Alternative Rock is dead; long live demographics. Since virtually all of the great late-Seventies and early-Eighties independent labels got snatched up by the big boys, the sound that once shook the underground has been touted – and accepted – as the latest groovy thing for going on ten years now. The elements have barely budged – enigmatic band names, droning guitars, pretty melodies and exhausted male singers.

Far from the freshness and punch of its previous effort, A Catholic Education, Teenage Fanclub seems to have lapsed into an alternative-rock coma. Bandwagonesque has not a single musical surprise in store: From the pop-culture in-jokes ("Pet Rock," the wordless "Is This Music?") to the faux spiritualism ("Star Sign," "Guiding Star") to the halfhearted stabs at irony ("The Concept," "Metal Baby"), each song lopes along at a slowish midtempo, made more endless by high, thin vocals and moments of decorative guitar feedback. And it's all repetitive repetitive repetitive.

The huge record labels have an excuse to call such homogenized product "alternative" – they're notoriously out of touch. The fans who reject Poison's or Amy Grant's image because those artists are obviously packaged and marketed with numbers-crunching calculation will happily fork over the $12.99 for Teenage Fanclub's equally persuasive images – eye-searing fluorescents and fisheye-lens photos of the unsmiling, unkempt band members. But these pleasantly innocuous melodies are alternative to nothing, certainly not to their antecedents – Bernie Taupin, Kansas and nursery rhymes. Still not convinced? Try singing Boston's "More Than a Feeling" to the tune of "Smells Like Teen Spirit." (RS 623)

ARION BERGER

other albums from 1991 that were better than nevermind:

varttina - oi dai

mano negra - king of bongo

old - lo flux tube

gorguts - considered dead

mekons - the curse of the mekons

nova mob - last days of pompeii

terminator x - terminator x & the valley of the jeep beats

son of bazerk - bazerk bazerk bazerk

julian cope - peggy suicide

neil young - weld

main source - breaking atoms

organized konfusion - s/t

immolation - dawn of possession

cathedral - forest of equilibrium

the obsessed - lunar womb

cranes - wings of joy

diamanda galas - plague mass

this mortal coil - blood

dog faced hermans - mental blocks for all ages

the young gods - play kurt weill

fear of god - within the veil

born against - nine patriotic hymns for children

fudge tunnel - hate songs in e minor

last crack - burning time

roxette - joyride

heidi berry - love

skin chamber - wound

chubb rock - the one

thee hypnotics - soul, glitter & sin

Son of Bazerk still gets regular play in my house.

that nova mob album is not better than nevermind, shit it's not even better than loveless.

i love that album! it's one of my favorite albums of the 90's!

weird.

it's the only solo husker du thing i've ever owned or heard too.

it makes me sad. and sometimes it feels triumphant to me. i like that it's about the sadness of history. the production is a little wonky at times, but it doesn't bother me.

Scott, you should try Grant Hart's solo stuff. His 1999 disc -- Good News for Modern Man -- is great. (xp)

Haven't heard Nova Mob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfx7tvGisbA

it's not for everybody. the pompeii one. i think you either feel it or you don't.

o_0 at that Rolling Stone review of Bandwagonesque.

Tempted to vote Bandwagonesque cuz that's what I actually listen to the most and has the most sentimental value, but really its not a patch on the impenetrability of Loveless. Nevermind way way way far behind the other two.

scott that roxette album is not better than nevermind or bandwagonesque. loveless maybe, but only maybe

1991 was just the most musically disillusioning year for me in my entire life. And that had to do with exactly two factors: I was eighteen, and indie bands were streamlining their sound and signing to majors.

And in both instances, you grew up and realized you were wrong.

Yes and no. Certainly I'm the first to admit that at 18, I didn't like seeing bands groom themselves for success. But then, at 36, I still don't. I just understand the whole process better now.

Anyone who disagrees with the following is a moron: Bleach > Nevermind. Justice > Black Album. Mind is a Terrible Thing > Psalm 69. Nothingface > Angel Rat.

Also, I saw Nirvana live pre and post Nevermind and I can personally attest to the fact that their live show suffered immediately.

DRAIN YOU

I would signing with a big label is usually a big idea unless that label requires you to change your style. Usually it means nothing else than bigger budgets and bigger budgets=better music.

bigger budgets=better music

They can mean that, but I'm sure that's not always true.

impenetrability of Loveless.

why is impenetrability a virtue on its own?

I was 18 and I think all of these came out during my first term at university.

Loveless - this is the album I was eagerly waiting for and easily my favourite of these three, but at the time I felt a bit underwhelmed by it (not because it was bad, it just seemed a bit *less* experimental than the Glider & Tremelo EPs that had come out before it).

Bandwagonesque - I couldn't really understand why people were raving about this. It's very bland. I didn't dislike the group and I loved 'Everything Flows', but this just seemed a bit dull and polished. Worst of the three, haven't heard anything off it for years and years.

Nevermind - Again, I didn't actually think Nirvana were bad, but I was mystified by how massive they became, and (much like Oasis a few years later) I grew to dislike them because they were so hyped and omnipresent. They didn't seem to be doing anything special or significantly different from what was already around, but somehow took over the world for a year or two.

i know what you mean about nirvana and the hype but at least they made decent melodic indie rock whereas oasis just made totally forgettable retro-rock without any interest at all. me too i thought bandwagonesque was bland and boring but it isn't. it is absolutely wonderful. behind all that polish and blandness there are wonderful melodies and a lot of noise. whereas loveless is a noise record with the tunes hidden behidn the noise, bandwagonesque is a pop record with the noise hidden within the beautiful harmonies and melodies.

why is impenetrability a virtue on its own?

mm I guess because no matter how many times you listen to it, there is always more to hear

more what, go-nowhere fuzzy guitar strumming and marble mouthed moaning?

its just one of those records where its endlessly absorbing trying to figure out exactly what is going on, how the sounds are being made (even tho I know Shields' guitar set-up was not especially complicated). its the same with Phil Spector's 60s singles - everything is so smashed into this mono mess, things blur together in a unique way.

I am aware these are not particularly profound or novel observations about MBVs sound but whatevs

spectors 60s singles had hooks and shit tho.

"more what, go-nowhere fuzzy guitar strumming and marble mouthed moaning?"

you tell 'em, chuck! hey, wait...

spectors 60s singles had hooks and shit tho.

eh, there are hooks in the MBV stuff. I think the bigger difference is that Spector loved a) really, propulsive, strong rhythm sections and percussion and b) singers and Kevin Shields wasn't interested in either of those things, really.

some folks here in need of a raggetting