Poll: Bandwagonesque v. Nevermind v. Loveless

"do you ever think some ppl are fronting with this whole OMG WEEN/BOLT THROWER/COWS IS BETTER THAN NEVERMIND shit nowadays?"

i felt the same way back then though. in 1991, i liked all the stuff on my list better than the stuff i heard on nevermind. i'm just old though. nirvana wasn't a "sea change" for me and they weren't saving me from anything. i listened to tons of cool stuff before they put out a record and after. doesn't mean i think they suck or anything. those are catchy songs! but the one and only time i ever got excited by nevermind was for a brief second when i first heard it at a party and thought it was a new squirrel bait album. then someone told me, no, it was nirvana. and then i thought, well, at least they are squirrel bait fans!

Eh, Nirvana - Nevermind > Amy Grant - Lead Me On > Amy Grant - Heart In Motion. Lead Me On has at least half a dozen great songs on it, Heart In Motion has "Every Heartbeat" and, uh, a bunch of other songs.

When I was 16 it was Nevermind for me all the way. Hadn't heard Loveless until years after that, and while it has its mindblowing parts, but that time I was also getting into Flying Saucer Attack and Spacemen 3 and JAMC, etc. so the for me shoegaze thing was about appreciating all these different approaches rather than one monumental album. Around that time I went back to Nevermind by downloading tabs and learning the songs. I read the lyrics to the songs for the first time and it made me appreciate Kurt's songwriting even more than I did originally.

Are there any threads discussing Landmark Albums you thought were just okay because you weren't the right age? Scott's response to Nevermind reminds me of how I acted when Kid A came out.

Heart In Motion has "Every Heartbeat" and, uh, a bunch of other songs.

"Good For Me!" "I Will Remember You"! "Baby Baby"! "Hats"!

Trompe Le Monde is insanely better than most of the records that came out in 1991 or since for that matter.

my brother played me pod by ween when it came out and it blew me away!!! i was really stoned though. that helped. but it excited me and made me laugh and was a memorable listen. i probably haven't heard it since, but that was a memorable moment! i haven't listened to blue lines in years either, but i thought it was great back then. and profound in some new way. though nothing can probably surpass how i felt when i brought the safe from harm twelve inch home and playing it for the first time. before the album came out. that actually did feel like some sort of sea change. in retrospect, it didn't lead to much except maybe some cool portishead singles, but i didn't have to care about that then.

i'm just old though. nirvana wasn't a "sea change" for me and they weren't saving me from anything. i listened to tons of cool stuff before they put out a record and after. doesn't mean i think they suck or anything. those are catchy songs!

Yeah, they're pretty good. I like the album, love "Teen Spirit," always have. But if you'd been listening to loud weird noisy indie guitar bands since at least, say, the first Flipper album or Butthole Surfers EP, it was honestly not that big a deal. Even the pretty pop-melody part of just seemed like something Husker Du/Replacements/Squirrel Bait/Soul Asylum/ Dinosaur Jr/etc. had been doing for the previous seven or so years. Refined, maybe. But refinement isn't the same thing as a sea change.

is it possible that something other than Loveless will win in ilx?

xp Though Teenage Fanclub, fwiw, seemed like a much much much smaller deal. They didn't even seem like a decent powerpop band, as far as I could tell.

And I've just never liked MBV much; they bored me then, bored me now. Always reminded me of Jesus & Mary Chain with the hooks taken out. So despite my list above, my vote here easily goes to Nirvana.

Always reminded me of Jesus & Mary Chain with the hooks taken out.

holy mother of god

i bought that first teenage fanclub album on matador and listened to it all of once. so, i guess i kinda wrote them off. i lumped them in with boo radleys and other bands that were a big deal in the u.k. and were only worshipped here by the bob magazine and magnet. the same people who still listen to new bob mould and robyn hitchcock albums. you know, like jack rabid.

loreena mckennitt "the visit" ftw

FWIW, I think that Teenage Fanclub album gets misunderstood when taken as a power pop album. Yeah, everything they did after it was power pop, and they wanted it to be power pop, and they ripped off power pop to make it, but it's not power pop to my ears. Which is probably why I like it.

Other thing I always come back to is: I bought Never Mind The Bollocks, Confusion Is Sex and Creamed Corn From The Socket of Davis at three different *mall record stores* in New Jersey so the idea of Nevermind suddenly ushering in some sea change has always seemed weird. I mean, I know what happened in its aftermath, but it wasn't like water suddenly came to the desert, at least for me.

do you ever think some ppl are fronting with this whole OMG WEEN/BOLT THROWER/COWS IS BETTER THAN NEVERMIND shit nowadays?

Maybe not frontin. Maybe they just enjoy being quantitatively wrong.

i laughed at "these are without question the three best albums of 1991"

also at scott including 'arc' over 'weld', surely the most contrarian piece of contrarianism on this thread so far. chuck and scott r u doing these off the top of ur head

when i was fourteen (almost ten years later, and in england) pretty much all my friends listened to nirvana, or at least this album. they did not listen to either of the other two albums. probably none of the other albums mentioned in this thread, except use yr illusion i and ii.

from what i can tell, the global advent of emo seems to have given 14-year-olds away from the pulsebeat something else to listen to and latch onto, which is a good thing: and i guess nevermind is historical for them, now, in a way it isn't for me, even though i was six when it came out. i mean, it's historical if you're over 40 or under 20 or so, it seems like. (feel free to quibble with the range here.)

hands up: how many people who have posted on the thread care enough about the question, as posed in the thread title, to actually have voted?

i voted for nirvana just because i didn't want to see the absolutely boring loveless take the win.

important thinking itt

loveless is just as overrated as nevermind is.

"Banwagonesque" I thought mediocre & derivative when it came out, I never understood why it got all the props it did, didn't understand why I never seemed to read any dissenting opinions about it at the time either. On top of that, my abiding memory of the fucking thing is that if you went out to the indie disco on a fri or sat night, you couldn't avoid hearing it, and it fucking ruined many nights out for as much as a year, due to it being heavily rotated by the local DJs. In retrospect, I wonder if it was the shock troop advance commando attack sorta thing for the wave of tedious nostalgia/retro rock that ruined british guitar music in the wake of britpop. Probably not, but y'know.

"loveless" I like plenty though if I'm reaching for a MBV rekkid, it's almost always going to be "isn't anything" Even though I like it, I think Xhuxk's "Jesus & Mary Chain with the hooks taken out" is kind of apposite and I do think that the mary chan blow MBV into the weeds generally.

"nevermind" I still like a lot, the tunes are still good & strong generally, the performances still propulsive & thrilling if you crank it up. I voted for "Nevermind"

From the stuff listed upthread by Scott & Xhuxk, i like "Blue Lines" about as well as nevermind, "Spideralnd" a little better, though I haven't played it in many years, "Laughing Stock" and "Cypress Hill" nearly as much.

People that vote MBV are like people that convince themselves that Trout Mask Replica is better than Abbey Road

but the thing is dude

ohhh, that first Cypress Hill record is fucking amazing! It's so overlooked. It's got a great vibe, kind of like "Illmatic" does. I think the production is even better than "Low-End Theory."

for comparative purposes whiney maybe start the '68/9 (?) thread with abbey road, trout mask replica, and a donovan album

in the court of the crimson king?

i don't think you're mapping these the same way i am

Loveless is the only one that can hold my attention after many repeated listens over the years.

Always reminded me of Jesus & Mary Chain with the hooks taken out.

That was actually my first impression of Loveless as well, until I realized shortly after that they were trying for something different, more like Cocteau Twins with feedback and fuzz. I was 17-18 when I had this realization, which was 17 years ago.

1991 was just the most musically disillusioning year for me in my entire life. And that had to do with exactly two factors: I was eighteen, and indie bands were streamlining their sound and signing to majors.

Nirvana Nevermind, Metallica Black Album, Voivod Angel Rat, and Ministry Psalm 69 all made me want to strangle the artists involved. Of those four, Angel Rat is the only one I've ever owned.

This is not an attempt to look cool or precocious. It's simply the state of mind I was in at that age that year. Nirvana Bleach (and tour) were big deals for me. Nevermind was a big disappointment.

And fwiw, I didn't get into Loveless until way later and I still think it's a nice listen more than a revelation/masterpiece. Stereolab writes better songs than MBV for crying out loud, and they usually only need one riff and one beat to do it!

1991 was just the most musically disillusioning year for me in my entire life. And that had to do with exactly two factors: I was eighteen, and indie bands were streamlining their sound and signing to majors.

So . . . Bandwagonesque or Loveless, I take it? They were both released on Creation Records, an indie label.

Voivod Angel Rat

This is actually a great album! Can't believe I left it off my list above (which btw was not done from memory; it's from a file on my desktop.) Though I can see how some people who loved all of Voivod's earlier, more convoluted stuff may have heard it as a betrayal. (I like their early stuff, too, but Angel Rat is still easily one of my favorites.)

it's historical if you're over 40 or under 20 or so, it seems like

I don't get this. Wouldn't people now in their 30s be more likely to feel it was a life-changing album, not less? (Though maybe I don't understand what you mean by "historical." I mean, it's obviously a historical album. It'd be idiotic to argue otherwise. I just don't think it's a great one.)

it has to be 'bandwagonesque', I mean, come on, look at who they inspired--the diggers, swiss family orbison, superstar, some people bought some bmx bandits records that may have not--that is quite a legacy.

xhuxk sorry by 'historical' i mean "part of the vast dead apparatus of history that speaks not to me on my own level", i guess that wasn't immediately apparent by my choice of the word 'historical'

So . . . Bandwagonesque or Loveless, I take it? They were both released on Creation Records, an indie label.

"indie" in UK has a diff. meaning, this is one of the oldest argts to have tho I'm sure you know this. MBV got an advance higher than most indie labels could even count in '91.

whiney do you really think Grunge Geir is a good look?

just teasin' btw, all love y'know

1991 was just the most musically disillusioning year for me in my entire life. And that had to do with exactly two factors: I was eighteen, and indie bands were streamlining their sound and signing to majors.

And in both instances, you grew up and realized you were wrong.

I like Loveless because the songs sound like they were on mushrooms

also why I like Coil btw

Trompe Le Monde is insanely better than most of the records that came out in 1991 or since for that matter.

― Adam Bruneau, Sunday, July 5, 2009 11:09 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

love that album so

lol The Face magazine didn't think kurdt was kute enough. their 1991 album list:

1 Massive Attack - Blue Lines
2 Primal Scream - Screamadelica
3 Young Disciples - Road To Freedom
4 PM Dawn - Of The Heart, Of The Soul And Of The Cross: The Utopian Experience
5 St Etienne - Fox Base Alpha
6 Seal - Seal
7 REM - Out Of Time
8 Omar - There's Nothing Like This
9 Prince - Diamonds And Pearls
10 Galliano - In Search Of The Thirteenth Note
11 Lenny Kravitz - Mama Said
12 Pet Shop Boys - Discography
13 Dream Warriors - And Now The Legacy Begins
14 The KLF - The White Room
l5 Ultra Nate - Blue Notes From The Basement
16 Public Enemy - Apocalypse '91
17 Various Artists - Paradiso
18 808 State - Ex:el
19 Teenage Fanclub - Bandwagonesque
20 A Tribe Called Quest - The Law End Theory

Here was Spin's 1991 list:

Teenage Fanclub - Bandwagonesque
R.E.M. - Out Of Time
Nirvana - Nevermind
Pixies - Trompe le Monde
Pet Shop Boys - Discography
Robyn Hitchcock - Perspex Island
Public Enemy - Apocalypse '91: The Enemy Strikes Black
Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger
Smashing Pumpkins - Gish
P.M. Dawn - Of The Heart, Of The Soul And Of The Cross: The Utopian Experience
Metallica - Metallica
Massive Attack - Blue Lines
Fugazi - Steady Diet Of Nothing
Urge Overkill - The Supersonic Storybook
Pearl Jam - Ten
Seal - Seal
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
Mudhoney - Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge
Guns N' Roses - Use Your Illusion I And II
Hole - Pretty On The Inside

Out of Time? They're Out of (Their) Mind.

That Urge Overkill disc was pretty good, tho imo.

Yeah, I thought that too. Had forgotten when the UO album came out.

In 1990 they had Catholic Education at #7, so really what could they do but put the follow-up at #1.

...and much as I love him, that Robyn Hitchcock album really blows.

Rolling Stone Two Star review of Bandwagonesque:

Alternative Rock is dead; long live demographics. Since virtually all of the great late-Seventies and early-Eighties independent labels got snatched up by the big boys, the sound that once shook the underground has been touted – and accepted – as the latest groovy thing for going on ten years now. The elements have barely budged – enigmatic band names, droning guitars, pretty melodies and exhausted male singers.

Far from the freshness and punch of its previous effort, A Catholic Education, Teenage Fanclub seems to have lapsed into an alternative-rock coma. Bandwagonesque has not a single musical surprise in store: From the pop-culture in-jokes ("Pet Rock," the wordless "Is This Music?") to the faux spiritualism ("Star Sign," "Guiding Star") to the halfhearted stabs at irony ("The Concept," "Metal Baby"), each song lopes along at a slowish midtempo, made more endless by high, thin vocals and moments of decorative guitar feedback. And it's all repetitive repetitive repetitive.

The huge record labels have an excuse to call such homogenized product "alternative" – they're notoriously out of touch. The fans who reject Poison's or Amy Grant's image because those artists are obviously packaged and marketed with numbers-crunching calculation will happily fork over the $12.99 for Teenage Fanclub's equally persuasive images – eye-searing fluorescents and fisheye-lens photos of the unsmiling, unkempt band members. But these pleasantly innocuous melodies are alternative to nothing, certainly not to their antecedents – Bernie Taupin, Kansas and nursery rhymes. Still not convinced? Try singing Boston's "More Than a Feeling" to the tune of "Smells Like Teen Spirit." (RS 623)

ARION BERGER

other albums from 1991 that were better than nevermind:

varttina - oi dai

mano negra - king of bongo

old - lo flux tube

gorguts - considered dead

mekons - the curse of the mekons

nova mob - last days of pompeii

terminator x - terminator x & the valley of the jeep beats

son of bazerk - bazerk bazerk bazerk

julian cope - peggy suicide

neil young - weld

main source - breaking atoms

organized konfusion - s/t

immolation - dawn of possession

cathedral - forest of equilibrium

the obsessed - lunar womb

cranes - wings of joy

diamanda galas - plague mass

this mortal coil - blood

dog faced hermans - mental blocks for all ages

the young gods - play kurt weill

fear of god - within the veil

born against - nine patriotic hymns for children

fudge tunnel - hate songs in e minor

last crack - burning time

roxette - joyride

heidi berry - love

skin chamber - wound

chubb rock - the one

thee hypnotics - soul, glitter & sin

Son of Bazerk still gets regular play in my house.

that nova mob album is not better than nevermind, shit it's not even better than loveless.

i love that album! it's one of my favorite albums of the 90's!