Terrorist attacks throughout Europe

I Love Humanity .... ugh

Perhaps we should ask the Armenians what they did wrong to the Turks and how they could prevent this next time

the desire to outlaw a deadly massacre tool after it's used in a deadly massacre is just like this. the terrorists used the absence of a social compact with religious minorities to...wait are we sure about this?

is there a french muslim here? i would be interested in their perspective.

if it were me, i would not want people to be talking about the legitimate interests and grievances of my community ONLY when someone from my community committed an atrocity. that seems awful. and it's also misrepresentative because the violence is carried out by a tiny, tiny sliver of extremists whose grievances are actually of a very different character than the average french muslim who faces discrimination.

also there was a white supremacist attack in france today too

The average french muslim is not a fan of the caricatures, very understandably so.

Also, the legitimacy of Islam in France is a topic discussed every other day in France, it's been in the background for as long as I remember politics. Plus, the french are a people prone to discussion and debate so... no it is only not discussed after attacks; perhaps it is in the anglo-sphere, but in France it's as common a discussion as racial prejudice is in the US.

if it were me, i would not want people to be talking about the legitimate interests and grievances of my community ONLY when someone from my community committed an atrocity.

Do you mean in French society or on ILX? ILX does talk about islamophobia in other instances, it prob doesn't do so much in the French context because, well, vast majority of posters don't live in France. Or are you referring to the French politics thread specifically?

If you're talking French society, yeah, it's a hot button issue at all times. Thus the rise of the FN.

ILX does talk about islamophobia in other instances

ILX is predominantly American and this doesn't seem to be subject that generates much interest in the US, hence treeship's tin-eared response.

i would not want people to be talking about the legitimate interests and grievances of my community ONLY when someone from my community committed an atrocity. that seems awful.

if you are a "real" fan of an artist's work, you should be talking about that artist all the time, and not just when they are about to release a new album or when said album gets reviewed on pitchfork.com

treeshie, people on ILX have a lot of things to talk about, and it's a message board where people talk with one another ... just because the discussion only tends to come up when there is an atrocity doesn't diminish or delegitimize the concern people have??? Plus, some of these things are not really enjoyable to post about every day for the sake of "consistency"? Like, less than a year ago there was like a mass shooting a day it seemed like in the U.S. ... did we discuss all of them? Do we have a "Daily Dose of American White Supremacy"? or "Black person killed by cops because racism" every day ??? It's emotionally exhausting, especially considering just because people aren't constantly posting about it, doesn't mean they aren't thinking about it.

BREAKING: Reports of a terrorist attack on the Vienna synagogue. One dead, several injured. Source: Ministry of the Interior https://t.co/q1TxIHTw6u

— Conflict News (@Conflicts) November 2, 2020

Fuck

Now hearing seven dead. Fuck, I used to live in Vienna and still have friends there.

"six different crime scenes" "several perpetrators"

it sounds horrific

This is the confirmed info atm

CONFIRMED at the moment:
*08:00 pm: several shots fired, beginning at Seitenstettengasse
*several suspects armed with rifles
*six different shooting locations
* one deceaced person, several injured (1 officer included)
*1 suspect shot and killed by police officers #0211w

— POLIZEI WIEN (@LPDWien) November 2, 2020

Lots of people (very prematurely) sharing that shooting in #Vienna is terror attack on a synagogue.
Jewish community leader below confirms synagogues were closed at time. It seems whatever has happened (and no official comment yet) may just have been in vicinity of synagogue. https://t.co/ps3c3oDg0B

— Michael Cowan (@mrmikecowan) November 2, 2020

Considering it's the jewish center of the city, I wouldn't be surprised if the attack was anti-semitic in nature.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/15/salman-rushdie-on-charlie-hebdo-freedom-of-speech-can-only-be-absolute
“The French satirical tradition has always been very pointed and very harsh, and still is, you know,” Rushdie said. “The thing that I really resent is the way in which these, our dead comrades ... who died using the same implement that I use, which is a pen or pencil, have been almost immediately vilified and called racists and I don’t know what else.”

pretty cool and still relevant.

I actually don't completely agree with him philosophically about freedom/freedom of speech, but I hate the impulse people have to "yes but" the murders of writers and cartoonists. To the extent that we are talking about "freedom" of speech in the sense that no one should die for their speech, then I 100% agree that freedom is indivisible.

Calling people like Bernard Maris or Cabu racists is dumb and I find it quite vile to not see in them a desire to first caricature the extremists. I think it's important to acknowledge that someone racist can do work that isn't racist and that the opposite is true, when I was talking about the case of teacher Party, it's less about him than the entire systemic racism and islamophobia l'éducation nationale presents to their students.

The attackers struck as Austrians congregated outdoors to enjoy a final night out before the country imposes strict new measures to control the pandemic.

“You could feel a lot of people wanted to get out one more time before lockdown starts,” said Ameli Pietsch, 23, who was in the area an hour before the attack. “It was a mild evening and lots of people were outside.”

The opening pictures that we showed in our News At Ten report on the shooting in Vienna were not from tonight’s incident. We apologise for this error.

— ITV News (@itvnews) November 2, 2020

Ah yes, liberté, égalité, fraternité:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55001167

i’m sure that will have the intended effect ffs

well at least now Tristam Hunt can't decry our lack of a Macron type figure in the UK, not while Farage is still politically active.

actually on reflection the “intended effect” is to demonise muslims for electoral gain so perhaps i am judging to hastily but as gyac said on the other thread why not just vote for the full-fat FN version and be done with it

https://t.co/8ZDrtBPU3G pic.twitter.com/UyHvJqpgBy

— Fred Durst Apologist (@DurstApologist) November 20, 2020

An update re: the Paty case:

A French schoolgirl has admitted lying and fabricating a story about her teacher, who was beheaded last year after her accusations against him.

The 13-year-old pupil, whose father started a hate campaign against Samuel Paty by filing a legal complaint, says she lied to please her father, and she was not even at the class in which the teacher was alleged to have shown a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad.

The girl, who has not been identified, had originally claimed that Mr Paty had asked Muslim pupils to leave the class before he showed “a photograph of the Prophet naked” to children during a class on free speech.
Her claims led to a dramatic chain of events, including death threats against the teacher and outrage among Muslims.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-samuel-paty-beheading-schoolgirl-b1814372.html

This story just gets more godawful over time.

Yeah, grim stuff.

Her claims led to a dramatic chain of events, including death threats against the teacher and outrage among Muslims.

Also, a beheading!

yeah, makes it sound like the teacher had to lock his twitter down

French daily newspaper Le Parisien reported that the girl wanted to prevent her father from knowing that she had been suspended for failing to attend the lessons.

“She would not have dared to confess to her father the real reasons for her exclusion shortly before the tragedy, which was in fact linked to her bad behaviour,” according to Le Parisien.

Particularly gritty Leave it to Beaver episode

Too early to say if it's a terrorist attack, but several killed by a bow and arrow (!) in Kongsberg, Norway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58906165

There is nothing at all in the linked report that suggests this was a terror attack, so posting it here, now, with no further info, seems unwarranted.

In the wake of the attack, Norwegian police have been ordered to temporarily carry firearms as a precaution.

oh shit

Authorities have not ruled out the possibility of a terror attack. "From the course of events, it is natural to consider whether this is an act of terrorism," Aas said.

as usual Aimless only reads his own posts

somebody has to

the linked article was updated after I posted, and those quotes after my post were among the updates, fwiw

but hey, it's fun to dunk on people regardless of chronology

first clue would be, idk, the fact that the article shows it's most recent version was published 35 minutes ago, when the original was quite obviously posted hours ago. very clearly indicating a recent update, but y'know...."dunks"

so it was "unwarranted" to post this here? I hardly think so.

Half the threads on ILE have lately turned into races to see who can dunk on another poster the fastest, so who knows. I thought it was fine to post here, especially with the caveat provided, esp because I can't think of a better, more relevant thread and starting a whole new one might not have been worth it.

I hardly think so.

Knowing your expressed opinion of me, whatever I say is not likely to cause you to reconsider. But other people read these threads, so...

Basically all that was said in the article at the time it was posted to this thread was that an assault with a bow and arrow had happened in a public place in Norway and multiple people had been killed or injured. Dan Worsley in his OP said it was "too early to say if it's a terrorist attack", yet he chose to treat it as one by selecting this thread.

I think it is not a good thing when people jump to hasty conclusions about the motives of an assault and label the act as 'terrorism' and the perpetrator a 'terrorist' when nothing in the available reporting leads to that conclusion. It just heightens fear and tension, sometimes for no reason. So, the complete lack of details at the time Dan posted (and I responded) did make his choice of thread unwarranted, in my opinion.

I have to admit I was scared to to open this thread and then I saw it was about a bow and arrow attack. So I guess that part was nice?

"yet he chose to treat it as one by selecting this thread"

I wouldn't be such a supercilious arrogant prick if I didn't have a basic understanding of how threads work on here.

Hah! I shall raise my eyebrows at you!

Here you go, let's not fall out over this one.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/counter-terrorism-police-take-over-inquiry-into-david-amess-killing

"Basically all that was said in the article at the time it was posted to this thread was that an assault with a bow and arrow had happened in a public place in Norway and multiple people had been killed or injured."

So basically it was totally fine to revive the thread. If it had turned out not to have been a terror attack this would've been corrected eventually.