Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

Wondering if Dweezil had any input on this or if he's just out in the cold completely.

Dweezil & Moon I don't think were involved at all, Moon didn't have anything positive to say about Winter: "He wouldn’t have been my first choice. He might not have been my 100th choice.”

But I am pretty curious to see it

I'm curious about it too. If it's like $5 on Amazon Prime, or if it pops up on Netflix or Hulu, I'll probably watch.

I'd rather see a good Zappa doc than listen to anything by Zappa, tbh. He's an interesting, important figure, second almost to the Dead in how the *idea* of the music is in some ways ultimately more important than the music itself.

Thought this might be a biopic for a mad second, no such luck

Same, Josh! I'd absolutely see a biopic about one-of-my least-favourite musicians, for real

I did listen to Uncle Meat on a whim last night and... I still do love it

I listened to Apostrophe recently, which I used to love, and found it mostly grating and tiring to be honest.

Not too many artists I'll say this about, but Zappa was waaaay too sober.

i hate judging a doc by its trailer but that whole bit at the end with zappa running for prez....

dude was politically abhorrent

Zappa was waaaay too sober.

― octobeard, Wednesday, October 28, 2020 5:32 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah but hot rats sounds amazing stoned

this is well worth watching

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5645352/

dude was politically abhorrent

Eh, would take him over a lot of Presidents.

......... fair

Looking forward to this. It was supposed to premiere at SxSW this year -- I wonder if Winter has done any late tweezing to it in the last six months.

I mean, he was pro-decriminalization, anti-censorship, anti-nuke, anti-military interventionism, anti-apartheid, pro-civil rights. Was v wrong about abolishing income tax, though.xp

So there have been many archival releases in the last 20 years that I've barely delved into. Any thoughts on which are the best ones?

Wazoo (a live album by one of his jazziest bands) was good. There's some worthwhile stuff on the big Hot Rats box, too.

Road Tapes Venue #2, Greasy Love Songs, Wazoo, Roxy Performances

Whatever your favorite era/band, there will be some road tapes; Wazoo, the Hot Rats Sessions, the Roxy Performances top my list.

Some of those archival releases also feature the original LP mixes of certain records that Zappa remixed for their original CD issues, such as Freak Out, Ruben & the Jets and Uncle Meat.

Who else but a genius of Frank’s Zappitude would concoct a modern day cowboy song about a dental floss ranch?

I just saw that the new FZ documentary will be available as one of WFMU's on-demand films starting the 27th.

Zappa's nephew, Stanley, is a jazz saxophonist. I reviewed one of his albums for Stereogum, and he follows me on Twitter.

The Alex Winter doc is really good filmmaking, y'all. It's not a complete hagiography -- Zappa's singleminded focus coming through as callous assholism is remarked on several times. Gail's unhappiness with FZ groupie indulgence is made plain, though not by Gail. Winter highlights the pathos of "Valley Girl"'s origin. He leaves out FZ's wide ranging xenophobia except for a throwaway comment by Kenneally. But he (Winter) gets Conceptual Continuity as Zappa presented it and assembles the film in the same way, with images and music cues from all eras peppered throughout, especially in the first and last 30 minutes. Really well edited, and it admirably doesn't rely too hard on talking head interviews, which makes them more effective when they are used. Ruth Underwood and Steve Vai are especially good.

Don't watch if you have any antipathy to FZ at all, but worth renting otherwise.

I dunno if I'm just dense, however, it is *fucking* me off that I can't seem to be able to rent this from the UK.

I'm watching this through Alamo Drafthouse tonight

is it possible to have *no* antipathy for Zappa?
looking forward to this

true, true, I have plenty

Curious to know whether this will be available to stream in Europe.

This was a fairly good documentary, the band member interviews and new footage were the strongest elements. My biggest complaint was that it focused too much on Frank Zappa the personality at the expense of the music.

This was a fairly good documentary, the band member interviews and new footage were the strongest elements. My biggest complaint was that it focused too much on Frank Zappa the personality at the expense of the music.

Is there a Zappa documentary you'd like to see that focuses on some other topic?

Zappa fans not renowned for their sense of humour.

Don't get me wrong, it was incredibly hilarious and insightful. Thank you for your service. But yeah, I'd definitely say that a key to enjoying this film is having a desire to see a Zappa doc in the first place.

Like talking to a brick wall.

Why are you even wasting your time?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

moodles' joke was funnier than tom's tbh

i mean tom's is probably the one i would make

but i suck

Mine's wasn't even a joke, I actually misread the original post and initially thought that's what it said! Which I thought was funny.

Oh hey

as a former smoker, the shot of an ailing Zappa, ravaged by the cancer that he would have avoided if he did not bizarrely carry on for decades as if cigarettes were not deleterious, or at least not as deleterious as every other drug that he excoriated in public for decades, feebly attempt to handle a lit cig as an attendant administered medication, was truly pathetic…I'l have more to say later about the doc…as per another active thread, Zappa and Albini are very very frustrating…

I'm about halfway through the doc, and, well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it's kind of exactly like the movie version of Zappa (the man). He's such an obnoxious asshole, and not even lovingly so. An important asshole, even world-changing, but an asshole nonetheless, which makes it kind of an exhausting experience. I do like the interviews with the musicians so far, and Winter's editing reflects the subject well, but man ... when he's talking about giving his wife the clap after going through groupies across Europe, not even in a free love sort of way but just out of pure my-way-or-the-highway selfishness ...

He's such an obnoxious asshole, and not even lovingly so.
Exactly! Which is why I am not a fan but I am a fan of the guy this song was written about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbdsR5cDJlk

as a former smoker, the shot of an ailing Zappa, ravaged by the cancer that he would have avoided if he did not bizarrely carry on for decades as if cigarettes were not deleterious, or at least not as deleterious as every other drug that he excoriated in public for decades, feebly attempt to handle a lit cig as an attendant administered medication, was truly pathetic…I'l have more to say later about the doc…as per another active thread, Zappa and Albini are very very frustrating…

― veronica moser, Monday, November 30, 2020 6:55 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

Didn't he die of prostate cancer?

no i think steve albini is still alive

🥁

Made it a bit more in the doc and liked the second half a lot more. In fact, had a bit of a ... revelation is too strong a word. But during the interview with David Harrington from the Kronos Quartet I thought to myself, huh, I love so much from John Zorn, why is it that I like so little Zappa? Is it ultimately just Zappa's singing/lyrics that drive me nuts? If he was *exclusively* instrumental, would I dig him? And my honest realization was ... maybe? I dunno.

I wish F had combined forces with don and Walter for an lp