Public service announcement: how to set up your own guitar/bass and not pay for others to do it...

Forgive me if you know any of this already and correct me if I'm talking out of my ass here -

Those saddles can adjust the string height with the small allen screws, and can adjust intonation with the spring loaded phillips one. Tune up, fret at the 12th and if it's sharp you need back the screw out a bit and if its flat you need to screw it in a bit as this effectively changes the string length between the 12th fret and the point where the string hits the saddle.

The limiting factor with those is that two strings hit the saddle at the same spot, which means it's hard to get them both to be in tune at the same time at the 12th fret. You can get "compensated" saddles that have little ramps to tweak where each string hits and imo it's much easier to get everything intonated correctly:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51l-7FE9Y2L._AC_SX425_.jpg

As for the truss rod, you'll need to take off the pickguard at least and possibly the neck to access the adjustment which is at the other end of the neck. I have to do this with my p bass and it's a pain (IN THE NECK) because I live in a place with dramatic changes in humidity.

I still think it's most likely the nut; most fenders come with .10s so putting .12s means the strings are more likely to not fit exactly into the slots and will bind (though I don't know how flatwounds factor into this).

You can get someone to reslot the nut where they will use special tiny precisely sized files to make the slots large enough for the thicker strings. Or you can buy expensive luthier quality or cheaper possibly terrible quality nut files and do it yourself, or you can do what I did and file teeth into the sides of six feeler gauges and and now you have two tools in one even if one of them is kind of shitty.

The limiting factor with those is that two strings hit the saddle at the same spot, which means it's hard to get them both to be in tune at the same time at the 12th fret.

...which is why I am leery of them, vis-a-vis the individually adjustable Strat-style.

I also think that there's a more pressing issue, which is that Austin needs to play guitar to stay sane, and tuning issues are making that difficult. A pro would almost certainly want to keep it for a week.

Hence: Austin, could you rent or borrow a different guitar locally for a few days? If it made any logistical sense whatsoever I would (totally serious here) offer to FedEx you one of my spare guitars.

ahh man, you guys are the solidest!

after work, i'm going to tinker with it a bit more specifically and see if i can make any headway. i still have my acoustic and i can run that through all of my pedals and make my weird noises that way for now. it's not quite the same, but it'll do. i'm just not sure where to take it. i mean, there's guitar center, but idk. . .??? are they usually any good at this sort of stuff? guess it depends on who they have on staff.

one of my guitars (a charity shop epiphone) never stays in tune on certain strings and i'm pretty sure it's the shitty plastic nut on it. will probably take a file to it at some point, but i was wondering what the dangers of making the slots too wide would be? weird sympathic resonance from the strings betond the nut or something?

*probably not all plastic nuts are shitty btw but this one definitely is

You’re most likely on the right track, tubing issues are far more often due to the nut than the tuners. Three suggested steps: get a lubricant such as graphite (from a soft pencil) into the slots; use offcuts from strings as impromptu files to gently shape the slots (ALWAYS angle downward toward the tuners, don’t want to deepen the fretboard side edge unless you know it’s needed); get a set of welding torch tip cleaners ($2) as cheap files to do the same thing.

*tuning issues

It’s also possible (and a good idea if you get it right) to file off the top of the nut until it is barely above the strings. The thin strings need a mm or so of depth but the thick strings can be sitting above the nut - as long as the slot is at least half the string thickness deep.

This looks good : https://hazeguitars.com/blog/how-to-make-a-bone-nut

"how-to-make-a-bone-nut"

frankiehowerd.gif

thanks matthew! won't be replacing the nut with a bone one for vegan reasons* but maybe if i can't get it fixed i'll look at some of the synthetic ivory ones you can get. am slightly tempted to whittle down a bit of foraged box or holly or similar hardwood though after reading that article. wonder what physical property it is that makes bone the preferred material for nuts?

*i know that e.g. the johnny marr signature jag has a plastic nut for similar reasons so i'm not the only crank out there

Wasn’t actually suggesting you remake the nut - it’s not that hard but it’s a bit of a process. Just the advice around how deep the slots need to be etc. A half- pencil line can be usefully diagnostic if you are having issues though (strings too high makes playing feel stiff and chords can be out of tune slightly, too low and you get buzzing).
Bone is used because of its dense crystalline properties coupled with ease of shaping (i.e. it doesn’t usually chip or crack) but there are lots of great synthetic options: Corian, Tusq etc., as well as brass. If you want to replace it, blanks which suit your type of guitar are the easiest place to start altho they’re more expensive than starting from the raw material.

i'm just not sure where to take it. i mean, there's guitar center, but idk. . .??? are they usually any good at this sort of stuff? guess it depends on who they have on staff

Austin, you're in Orange County right? Let me know...

I bought a new Epiphone SG a few months ago, they seem to have pretty good reviews everywhere, but I ended up with a lemon. It goes out of tune very quickly, like after 1 or 2 songs, and I break strings on it *constantly*. I broke every string on it within a few weeks, and some have broken multiple times. They all break on the bridge/saddle apart from the B string which has snapped twice immediately after putting a new string on, as I'm tightening it up, it's snapped twice at the tuning peg.

I'm really pretty fed up with it, but I know v little about guitars and don't really know what to do about it. Now every time a string breaks I try and sand the saddle a bit because apparently this can be caused by sharp edges, and I've switched to using a 0.5mm plectrum instead of 0.7 or 1, and it seems to have got a bit better, but I really hate that it's put me off playing it. I usually just end up playing my old battered Squier strat, which has plenty of its own issues (fret problems where certain frets just go dead if you play a bend on them, loose connections in the electrics etc) but at least I can strum that without all the strings breaking.

I would switch the bridge for something nickel plated. Often the cheaper hardware is chrome plated, and chrome being harder than steel, can provide a nasty break point.
Before that, try the welding torch tip cleaners or a tiny round file, or even a piece of sandpaper folded into a vee, just a few strokes in the notch of the saddle until there’s no sticking.

Gah, Colonel, life's too short. Trade that puppy in.

The stores and online sources are full to bursting with production-line guitars that will work perfectly right out of the box.

Sorry, unless it is a unique vintage instrument or something with a lot of sentimental value, I would not run about fashioning tools and ordering replacement parts and doing weeks of trial and error and seeing what works to get a stock Epi basically playable.

Today's affordable guitars are light-years beyond what was available when I was a lad. Nowadays even a $300ish Squier just... works. It does not need to be a battle.

Just my opinion

What causes guitars to go out of tune quickly, does that mean the tuning pegs are duff or something? Sorry I am a complete ignoramus.

Have thought about selling it and buying something else, but obviously I wouldn't get my money back on it and then I'd worry I'll get another shit guitar that sucks, because I did research a bit before buying that, and all the reviews said Epiphone SG 2020 range is really good.

I have owned, I think, three Epiphones and they were all perfectly good right put of the box. Sorry you got a lemon but I think it's a freak outlier.

Your tolerance of work/expenditure may vary, but personally I would not waste more time on an instrument that has something fundamentally wrong.

Austin, you're in Orange County right? Let me know...

― Elvis Telecom, Friday, October 30, 2020 2:44 AM

yes, very far south tho— near capistrano.

Counterpoint: doing a modest amount of work to rectify a problem is less wasteful and builds knowledge for dealing with other issues. And having a bridge with rough saddles isn’t something fundamentally wrong, it’s just a dud component of an assembly line product. I wouldn’t toss a car because the seat didn’t adjust properly.

And CP tuning stability problems are due to something which allows the string to slip in tension after tuning. In rough order of likelihood:
- really cheap strings
- tuning down to pitch instead of going lower and tuning up
- messy or excess winds on the tuning post (not holding string in tension while winding on, and letting wraps jumble over each other)
- insufficient winds on tuning post
- not properly locking the string off against itself when putting it through the post
- strings sticking in nut slightly
- ball end of string not being snug in tailpiece/string hole/bridge hole
- intonation wrong (tunes successfully but feels out of tune playing other things)
- tuners mechanically unstable (heavily depends on instrument age and quality)

I'm using Ernie Ball Super Slinky. I did buy some Cobalt strings because they are supposed to be stronger - put one on the B string - it broke immediately when I was tightening it up, at the tuning peg.

not doing any weird tunings, just standard.

I may not be winding it enough? or locking it properly? but I don't have this issue on my strat, which is 20 years old, battered to shit and cost £150 new.

it may be to do with the guitar not being set up actually? seems to sound out of tune further up the neck iirc? I may not rc.

If it hasn’t had a setup including intonation it will sound more out of tune the higher up the neck - just hold a barre chord and try it at higher and higher fret positions. There are good YouTube videos on winding strings onto tuners, and good ones on intonating, depending what kind of bridge you have. Several phone apps give good tuning accuracy to allow proper intonation.
One other possibility is that the action is too high, so you’re having to press strings down further to reach the frets - this can lead to pitch being sharp which affects some strings more than others.
Getting a setup isn’t that expensive, but learning to set up is good investment if you can master the skills.

can you guess what my hobby is?

I think the action is OK, in that it seems easy to play? or have I got the wrong idea about that - I assume if it's too high you have to press down harder and I don't get that impression when I'm playing it

thinking about it I'm not sure it is the intonation, it usually sounds OK playing barre chords anywhere just after I've tuned up. so maybe for some reason this guitar is more susceptible if I don't wind the strings round enough, I usually just wind round twice, but that's always worked OK on my other guitar

someone I asked on a forum suggested I just buy a new bridge and some locking tuning pegs, which is annoying that I'd have to do that, but may cost less than selling this guitar for a fraction of what I bought it for then buying another guitar. so I might have to do that, but will see if sanding the saddles when a string breaks makes any difference first. I'm just doing the fold sandpaper into a V thing atm.

I also rolled a bit of sandpaper into a tube and ran that through the B-string tuning peg a bit, since that's the only one where a string broke at the peg (twice). hasn't broken there since, so maybe that worked? fingers crossed I guess

Sounds good. And locking tuners are bullshit, I have around 20 guitars ranging from cheap to pretty good, none have locking tuners, all are dead stable tuning wise.
Fender style guitars are typically more forgiving than Gibson style for setup and stability, because Leo Fender was an engineer with a very good understanding of mass production.

it is quite lame of me that after 20 years I don't know if I'm putting strings on correctly. I asked my guitarist friend, but he'd never had any issues with strings constantly breaking at the bridge, so he asked me if I'm stringing them correctly, and I was like, is there a wrong way to do it?

It's really about maintaining tension while winding it up - after passing the string through the tailpiece and pulling it snug, I generally lock-off the string at the tuner by passing the free end underneath the winding string, with enough slack to hold the string about 2-3 inches above the fretboard, then hold tension while winding it on, and checking that the wraps accumulate smoothly underneath the previous. Ends up with a neat stack of wraps with the string emerging from the bottom side. The key is to keep it taut while winding so that everything is maintaining the tension set by the tuner.
This video is pretty helpful but I lock it differently, and would use a little extra slack than this person does (e.g. 1.5 to 2 tuner spaces).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7O6gQDroog

Fender style guitars are typically more forgiving than Gibson style for setup and stability, because Leo Fender was an engineer with a very good understanding of mass production

it's amazing how different the philosophies are between the two - gibsons are all carved tops, set necks, rear routes, transparent finishes, angled headstocks and stuff from old timey wooden instrument building and fender comes along and is like, fuck it, bolt the necks, use string trees, and route the top and cover that shit with a giant pickguard and a coat of paint.

anyway one other thing I've heard about tune-o-matic style bridges and string breakage is to try raising the tailpiece a bit so the angle from the saddle to the end of the string is smaller which can decrease the tension

as for notes fretting out on bends, ime this is from the string height being too low at the saddle (and depends on fretboard radius and such). i figured this out when trying to learn the solo from Helter Skelter which has a whole step bend on the 15th fret of the high e - i set the height just high enough that it won't fret out and do the same for the b, g, and d.

fender comes along and is like, fuck it, bolt the necks, use string trees, and route the top and cover that shit with a giant pickguard and a coat of paint

Also if you have a maple fretboard, it is quite literally just the topmost bit of the neck. The simplicity is attractive to me (though I have some guitars with rosewood boards as well).

there are a couple of great Martin Guitar videos for on YouTube on changing strings that have been really helpful

elvis, we took the telecaster to the place in laguna you recommended. just got it back yesterday and, well, let's just say i'm a little tired this morning because i was up late enjoying it last night. thanks again.

Excellent!

also for anyone in the area that wants to check it out: https://www.theguitarshoppe.com

cool place, friendly folks. yeah.

Weirdly or perhaps not because I was doing the right thing, not long since I last posted on this thread, my guitar started working. The strings stopped breaking. I guess I needed to work it in and keep sanding the saddles.

I did figure out a couple of months ago that the action was really high, and lowered, and that helped a huge amount, made it more fun to play, maybe that also helped to stop breaking strings, but the constant breaking stopped before I did that.