Terrorist attacks throughout Europe

(xp) Euler isn't French yet.

you're welcome, calz.

wow who are the 1% american posters haven't wished death on other posters, that's a really interesting statistic.

I told THE AMAZING RANDY to play in traffic once.

his last words were "HI DE-"

One thing about France is that a lot of french people take it personally when you criticize France, no matter where they are on the political spectrum. It's not a behaviour reserved to the patriotic right like in the US or the UK. And irl (more so than here), I've find it hard to defend my views about systemic racism in France without having to justify either my love of France or something similar.

I don't think this is a peculiarity of France tbh, I've known ppl who are generally quite sound on the problems of their country get wound up when an outsider points them out all over.

a/k/a FBS, the Fred B Syndrome

Three people have been killed in a knife attack in the French city of Nice, police say.

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said there had been a "terrorist attack at the heart of the Notre-Dame basilica".

One elderly victim who had come to pray was "virtually beheaded". The suspect was detained shortly after the attack.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54729957

Yeah just saw that, fucking diabolical.

that's horrific

A person supposedly carrying a knife in Avignon has been killed by police, an hour after the Nice-attack.

carrying waving

One thing about France is that a lot of french people take it personally when you criticize France, no matter where they are on the political spectrum. It's not a behaviour reserved to the patriotic right like in the US or the UK. And irl (more so than here), I've find it hard to defend my views about systemic racism in France without having to justify either my love of France or something similar.

I don't think this is a peculiarity of France tbh, I've known ppl who are generally quite sound on the problems of their country get wound up when an outsider points them out all over.

― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, October 27, 2020 6:12 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Happens to me (an outsider) here in Netherlands all the time.

I’m glad we’re going into lockdown tomorrow, because attacks like these today are terrifying, as is their intent, and the global boycotts and protests against France are fanning the flame. Lockdown means fewer people out hopefully.

Another person who told his father he was going to “do like in Nice” has just been arrested in Sartrouville. There is no exit from this.

Apart from a new political settlement and social compact with religious minorities and immigrants you mean

But that’s not on offer

I reckon FN is inevitable, frankly

Last night the Sénat debated the loi de programmation pluriannuelle de la recherche (LPPR) that has been the target of so much anger against the Macron government by academics. The first six articles were approved, having already been approved by the Assemblée Nationale last month. But the Sénat decided to add to the law that « Les libertés académiques s’exercent dans le respect des valeurs de la République », singling out laïcité as one such value. I do not mean to approve or disapprove of this law here---that is a much broader and at the same time more provincial subject than terrorist attacks in Europe---but simply to note this addition to the law is an astonishing revision of academic freedom in France, and that no changes of the sort you are describing, Tracer Hand, are forthcoming any time soon.

No one should be killed during prayer. I know it’s obvious, but I’m hurting.

Meanwhile, the man who was until February prime minister of Malaysia today promoted genocide against French people, as a response to the colonial crimes of France. "The French in the course of their history has killed millions of people. Many were Muslims. Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past."

As a general rule, I don't take a beheading as an opportunity to contemplate whether the beheader may have a point about certain things. I used to engage in that exercise, but I don't anymore. I'm not giving the views someone who beheads a woman in church any space in my mind.

former PM of malaysia might want to double-check his koran on that one

and the colonial history of Islam.

man alive otm

Not a single post itt has been about saying the murderers "have a point".

If you take the opportunity of a beheading to discuss grievances in some way connected to that beheading that's what you're doing

Apart from a new political settlement and social compact with religious minorities and immigrants you mean

But that’s not on offer

I reckon FN is inevitable, frankly

― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, October 29, 2020 11:17 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

i don't know if a more pluralistic and tolerant france would prevent fanatics from murdering people. i think it is good to move that way for its own sake though.

No, it's not, and it's asinine to suggest that. Analysing the factors that lead to a societal ill is not equivalent to defending that societal ill; it's looking at how to prevent it from happening again.

xpost

ok so it *is*true that alienation can drive people into the hands of fanatic groups, so it's better to create a society where alienation is less common. but it's also important to keep in mind that the terrorists aren't multiculturalist liberals who just "broke," they are religious fanatics killing infidels

Said it before, will say it again. The current approach isn’t working, do you clowns have any ideas that aren’t either dogwhistling send-em-back sentiment or what?

"a more pluralistic and tolerant france... it is good to move that way for its own sake though."

this is my position gyac

i'm not "dog-whistling" mass deportation. like, jesus

but it's also important to keep in mind that the terrorists aren't multiculturalist liberals who just "broke," they are religious fanatics killing infidels

Really feel like you're arguing with a strawman here treesh. No one is under the delusion that the killers used to be "multiculturalist liberals", it's just about acknowledging that fanatism, of any stripe, doesn't exist in a vacuum.

she wasn’t talking to you treesh

I’m absolutely never talking to you treeship given that I have you blocked, so don’t waste your breath.

ok so it *is*true that alienation can drive people into the hands of fanatic groups, so it's better to create a society where alienation is less common. but it's also important to keep in mind that the terrorists aren't multiculturalist liberals who just "broke," they are religious fanatics killing infidels

― treeship., Thursday, October 29, 2020 11:52 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

OTM. I'm all for increasing tolerance, reducing alienation and economic immiseration, etc., but I don't think you can treat violent fundamentalists as though they are just plants and the failings of larger society were the soil, seed, water and light.

fanaticism exists in the long tail of human experience and behavior. it won't necessarily disappear if you change the distribution or shift the median. I think treeship is saying it's a bit gross to use shit in the long tail as leverage to argue for the shifts in median/distribution that we all want anyway.

If you think it’s a coincidence that it happens more in France than elsewhere I have a bridge to sell on la Loire.

this shit gets funded by oil billionaires from other countries, it doesn't just spring from between cracks in the sidewalk

lol well good luck getting the west to give up its dependence on cheap oil to maintain our way of life, if it were up to me I would have shifted to renewables decades ago to cut the legs from KSA as well as benefiting the planet but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

your relentless attempt to make a woman's beheading into the fruit of the west's original sin is gross

this shit gets funded by oil billionaires from other countries, it doesn't just spring from between cracks in the sidewalk

Might be a good idea to stop making it easier for them tho, no?

What a fucking lie, but it’s not as though you can actually refute the point of why KSA is rich in the first place so.

I think people are able to compartmentalize an obvious tragedy and wider critiques of society that may have lead to the tragedy, all being respectful. I’m mean this is like right wing american politicians saying we shouldn’t politicize school massacre the moment people talk about gun control.

no it's nothing like that at all

This is actually more the equivalent of a white supremacist shooting up a church and then having a thread where we discuss the opioid crisis in the shooter's community.

Extremism in minority communities isn’t motivated by the same factors as extremism in majority communities, but you know that, right?

what motivates extremism in Saudi Arabia?

This is actually more the equivalent of a white supremacist shooting up a church and then having a thread where we discuss the opioid crisis in the shooter's community.

Or, say, internet radicalization of young men, which is a relevant and valid thing to discuss in that context.

But we're not discussing the use of propaganda to radicalize young muslims, we're discussing why it's france's fault.

Extremism in minority communities isn’t motivated by the same factors as extremism in majority communities, but you know that, right?

― liberté, égalité, scampé (gyac), Thursday, October 29, 2020 12:08 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is complete bullshit. You are projecting your revolutionary leftist fantasy onto a right wing reactionary group.

Plus, I think part of the reflex for some french people is to not let the RN/FN dictate the terms of the discussion in the aftermath of such tragic situations.