SB 51: the California politics thread

Like, in my example of a federal ballot measure about prosecution for racist cops that murder black people -- which I noticed you just conveniently ignored. Black Lives Matter (and related orgs) could sponsor a ballot measure on this subject. This could affect more equal change statewide, as opposed to just acting at the local level, where the results depend on the politics of elected officials in those localities, as well as the varying structures related to oversight of law enforcement. In other words, you will likely get more justice in Berkeley than in Bakersfield. ... which sucks for black people (and those who care about them) who happen to end up at the wrong end of a cop's gun in Bakersfield.

how do you have a ballot measure to (1) prosecute crimes (2) murder is already illegal (3) prosecute crimes against one race
sorry i don't know why i clicked this thread, i've never even been to CA, but ballot measures are the worst and putting any criminal law on the ballot is a recipe for disaster. anti-minority by definition. do they even allow criminal laws to be enacted by ballot measure?

ballot measures lead to vibrant civic engagement, as this crucial text proved

https://i.imgur.com/7h2Ie1O.jpg

we could have a system where grassroots organizations can do this too? The ballot measure system allows for this.

in a legalistic sense yes, and i think i agree that ballot measuress would be good in an ideal world. but in a practical sense, no it doesn't allow for this. it costs an average of $5m to gather signatures and for anything remotely contentious it costs several times (5, 10, 20?) more than that to actually get the votes to pass. see https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_measure_signature_costs,_2020 and the tweet upthread about how much is being spent on each measure and where the money is coming from.

e.g. the only reason rent control is on the ballot (again, after failing in 2018) is a single incredibly wealthy person in LA (michael weinstein). there's thousands of organizations advocating for rent control, but they do not have access to the ballot measure system as a practical matter.

I see, in my idealistic mind, a system, where these work as checks and balances of one another -- the ballot measure as safety valve for when elected officials don't serve the public. ... Where I live, wealthy corporations are funding opponents to progressive candidates for local office (I doubt our city is unique in this) ... it isn't that ballot measures are the evil thing here, it's wealthy people/corporations' influence

i agree with this. my point is that the nature of the ballot measure system (huge up front costs, and if they pass they are impossible for the legislature to undo, and almost impossible for another ballot measure to undo) make the problem of money worse in ballot measures in 2020 than it is in representative democracy.

also it's not checks and balances if the legislature can't undo a ballot measure. it's just a system by which people with enough money can override the legislature.

Like, in my example of a federal ballot measure about prosecution for racist cops that murder black people -- which I noticed you just conveniently ignored

i ignored it because as harbl said it would get refused by the state attorney. it's not a law. it's like something on https://twitter.com/rejectpetitions.

This could affect more equal change statewide, as opposed to just acting at the local level, where the results depend on the politics of elected officials in those localities, as well as the varying structures related to oversight of law enforcement.

this is an argument for passing good laws at the state or federal level by any method, or for amending the state or federal constitution. i don't understand how it's an argument for ballot measures in particular.

do they even allow criminal laws to be enacted by ballot measure?

there's a ballot measure this year to recategorize a bunch of misdemeanors as felonies. cool system.

As long as special interests have their undue influence in politics, every one of these rotten ballot measures is antidemocratic. Fuck em all and fuck prop 22 especially.

Tsk.

Coming down to the wire: New poll on Prop 22 in California, 46% yes, 42% no.

It’s the most expensive ballot measure campaign in California history, with 90% of the funding comes by from gig companies trying to rewrite labor law. https://t.co/JZHtydpSE3

— Matt Pearce 🦅 (@mattdpearce) October 26, 2020

haha

really feel like we haven’t talked enough about this absolutely hilarious Realtors flyer pic.twitter.com/gPcHRTxgU6

— fry votes yes on 15 & 21, no 22 (@anniefryman) October 23, 2020

there is apparently another in this series with a white man in a fancy suit holding up two bags of "money" standing in front of a large house. It's partly hilarious because "bags of money" and also because he is holding them in the way you see people holding fish they caught, with the same triumphant expression

That one is on the back of the mailer.

https://i.ibb.co/54d2CLV/079-FA6-AF-7-C93-4035-AC46-AF76-E90-ED8-FE.jpg

Ha!

doesn't that look like a "person holding fish" pose??

w..ow

.@GavinNewsom also DECLINED to take a #Prop22 position today, signaling his continued desire for an #AB5 deal w gig tech companies:

"I want to position ourselves as it relates to this issue in a position where we can accommodate if there is a need and desire to see compromise"

— Jeremy B. White (@JeremyBWhite) October 29, 2020

hahahah oh Gavin, you are still the same person who all the good leftists loathed when you first ran for Mayor of SF against the dreamy Matt Gonzales ...

w..ow

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, October 29, 2020

OTM

informal poll... am I a weirdo outlier in really disliking both #AB5 and #prop22?

uhhh in your opinion, what should be the "employment" relationship of gig workers and other freelancers that more and more have been mis-characterized as independent contractors?

what is the polling on 22? is it likely to lose?

last I saw, it was close?

Ab5’s heart is in the right place but I think the consensus is it’s a badly written law with a lot of unintended consequences (most of which have been fixed?)

Prop 22 sucks.

yeah - a bunch of things in AB5 got fixed re the arts and cultural workers ...

Prop 22 is 46% for and 42% against, and undecideds have been breaking evenly from earlier polls, so it'll likely pass.

Maybe. Ballot measures are very hard to poll.

still hoping it fails

why are they hard to poll?

Oh, Gavin. Voice so gravelly, hair so slick. Slick with enough excess grease to keep the gears of the accomodation and compromise engine propelling him forward to the 2028 (2024?) dem primary. The debate with him & AOC squarin off is gonna be delightful

I'm glad I engaged with this thread last month and learned me some info-facts on prop 22. I pragmatized my new knowledge and got into a text convo with my mom about it where I am proud to say I successfully persuaded her to change her (easily persuaded) mind from a no I think they should be able to stay independent to a hmm yes I understand now.

Slick with enough excess grease to keep the gears of the accomodation and compromise engine propelling him forward to the 2028 (2024?) dem primary. The debate with him & AOC squarin off is gonna be delightful

hahahaha for sure, and also we will all be reminded of the classic bearskin rug pic with him and Kim Guilfoyle ... still, he has actually been a less bad governor than I had expected.

Fun story -- almost half of SF's reigstered voters have already voted, Alameda County at 46%.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Bay-Area-s-early-votes-are-pouring-in-15682880.php

Ab5’s heart is in the right place but I think the consensus is it’s a badly written law with a lot of unintended consequences (most of which have been fixed?)

Prop 22 sucks.

did you see how they changed it this year? https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/california-assembly-moves-to-loosen-gig-worker-law-for-some

I like the succinctness of Ned’s linked tweet regarding 22: “…gig companies trying to rewrite labor law”

why are they hard to poll?

I will say this about GOTV efforts on 22 -- as a Teamster (yes, I know -- anyway, your kneecaps, etc.) I'd been receiving regular messages by text or voicemail once a day from either them or associated groups (including MoveOn? politics, strange bedfellows) for a couple of weeks now, reminding me about that and voting in general. After I turned my ballot over the weekend I responded to the next text after that confirming I'd voted and voted against 22 -- got a quick thank you note back and I haven't been contacted by anyone since. Which is good! It means they're running an operation that appropriately takes people off their contact list once they don't need to be contacted again and can concentrate elsewhere.

as a Teamster (yes, I know -- anyway, your kneecaps, etc.)

The teamsters have taken over/absorbed a lot of library-related workers unions in the Bay Area, haven't they? The UC bindery/printing services workers have become teamsters in the past 10 years I think.

As for 16

MY LATEST @LATIMES COLUMNA: Latino ambivalence about affirmative action could doom Prop. 16. RT, porfas! https://t.co/QWLhXpbgP9

— Col. Gustavo Arellano (@GustavoArellano) October 30, 2020

The teamsters have taken over/absorbed a lot of library-related workers unions in the Bay Area, haven't they?

I don't know about library jobs in specific though it's not surprising -- I'm part of it in the UC context, where the old UC clerical workers union, CUE, which includes library assistants like me as opposed to actual librarians who have their own union/org, chose to affiliate with the Teamsters about a decade back. Absolutely the case that the Teamsters have made getting public employee unions on board and a handy part of the drive has been further incorporating other nonrepresented employees via state labor decisions and so forth, and maintaining a high paying membership (consistently over 80%) even after Janus -- and keep in mind before the Teamster affiliation actual paying membership was down in the mid-20s. Anyway, it's been good to be part of this larger whole, though of course other public employee unions also means affiliation with, how you say, certain people known currently for their uniforms, firearms and the like when carrying out legal responsibilities. The reckoning has not yet come there.

oh right -- I forgot you were UC affiliated.

This morning I found out that I pay four times as much property taxes as my local South Pasadena Trader Joe’s.

My Trader Joe’s is four times the size of my home, so I am paying 16 times more per square foot than TJs.

They are literally paying $400 a month in property taxes. pic.twitter.com/QmGsmIqnfI

— Josh (@JalbyMD) July 26, 2020

I'm sure they pass those savings on to you, the customer, tho… right?

— Aaron 🥑🚈🌲🏀 (@aceckhouse) July 27, 2020

lol no doubt

So if I'm reading this correctly this guy (JalbyMD) buys a house in South Pasadena last year for $1.5M and is now complaining about the property taxes he's levied versus those of the very first location of Trader Joe's (est. 53 years ago)?

that's not the first trader joes, and yes.

his argument is not that his taxes should be lower.

i suspect his argument is that:

- if you are a business doing hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue

- and you own a piece of real estate worth, conservatively, $10m

- that benefits enormously from the literal billions of dollars the public spent putting a metro right line next to it

- and you have wealthy customers attracted to south pasadena by some of the best schools in the state of california

you should pay more property tax to fund services like schools and transit than, for example, a nearby three bedroom house.

Not defending Prop13 in the least, but a few things:

1) Proximity to Trader Joe's is known to boost residential real estate values (and also lily-white suburbs but that's... for another time) so there's a bit of a fortuitous synergy happening there.
2) The Metro Line is for employee transportation, those massive parking lots outside packed with hybrid SUVs & Teslas? Those are the customers' transpo.
3) In my research I found that 4 of the largest employers in the city of South Pasadena are grocery stores (well, as of 2016: Ralphs, Vons, Trader Joe's and Bristol Farms RIP).
4) Why is it always the biggest YIMBY-brigaders tend to be recent transports to some of the lowest-density hamlets in the burbs? (who then relocate elsewhere within 10 years)
6) Tax everyone more, but especially whiners like JalbyMD (and Trader Joe's too I guess).
7) Bulldoze single family residences/neighborhoods within 10-mile radius of downtown centers and replace them with more sensible solutions with more equitable tax-structures.

(I'm running)

with more equitable tax-structures

what are these?

6) Tax everyone more, but especially whiners like JalbyMD (and Trader Joe's too I guess).

lol "I guess".

i get that someone who can afford the downpayment on a house worth ... checks notes ... twice the median LA county price is not particularly sympathetic, but they should pay less property tax than a trader joes!

Why is it always the biggest YIMBY-brigaders tend to be recent transports to some of the lowest-density hamlets in the burbs?

why do people who want to build more housing move to south pasadena? it's a good place to live for the same reason it is literally the best place to put more housing in LA county. it would absolutely rule to put a bunch apartment buildings there.

why do people people who move to south pasadena complain about their property taxes? i would imagine it's pretty frustrating to live next to people with 10x their wealth who pay 1/10th what what they do.

actually, i don't have to imagine. i own 20% of a house in california so i know how that feels too.

did you post the link to the map app that shows the property tax info? There's one someone posted about that shows Oakland taxes, but maybe it was on fb.

Bristol Farms is closed? All of them or just the SP one?