Cocteau Twins : Classic or Dud

Aston book is great *but* it outrageously names the pub over the road from 4AD as the Slug & Lettuce. Come on, man, that chain didn't exist until '85. No way no damn Xmal Deutschland logo was designed in a Slug & Lettuce. :) (It was definitely a S&L for all of the '90s).

(Actually, 4AD-haters are probably very amused by the parallels with that much-maligned chain of airy, spacious, stripped-pine bars.)

I believe Millimillenary was the first thing Simon R and Robin G wrote together, late '83. One of my faves on Pink O.

I remembered last night that I am legally obligated to post this 1985 news report every time this thread is revived

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaOlNfC8_xQ

^^ it's in my YT faves like, ten times

lol, thank you for that. love the newsteam touching their hair at the end there

to be fair, Siouxsie was huge in the pre-Cocteau postpunk scene, 1978-1980

I love that the same post punk Siousxie adoration that produced the Cocteaus somehow produced Altered Images.

I read somewhere (maybe the Martin Aston 4AD book) that when Ivo first heard the Cocteaus it was on such a shitty quality demo tape that he couldn't even hear Liz's voice but he was intrigued by the guitar sound and he asked them to come and play. So Liz Frazer was something of an unexpected bonus!

Yay Cocteau fever !

WAIT - that's elizabeth fraser on Mezzanine?!?!!

Was she ever. Last year's Massive Attack tour focused on that album -- a remarkable presentation -- featured her and over twenty-five years after I last saw her on the Four Calendar Cafe tour -- where she was clearly not in the best of headspaces -- seeing her just gently/regally appear and do her two songs was so remarkable. I've been casual friends with the Chavis brothers from the Veldt for many years and they got to know Robin and Liz when Robin produced an unreleased album by them in 1990, and they met up with her backstage at one of the East Coast dates of the tour and the photos they posted and the memories made it clear they were very happy to see her again and vice versa, and that she's in good spirits. I value that very, very highly.

the idea of Liz having Siouxsie tats, and then having them removed, threw me into a lengthy reverie yesterday

well this thread got me to finally check out This Mortal Coil and ... honestly, Ned, I'm angry that you didn't push me toward them earlier.

jeez next you'll be telling us you've never heard Love's Easy Tears

xpost I can’t help it if you don’t follow my every word of wisdom. *sighs dramatically* But more seriously, better late than never, and now you know. I can always play Filigree and Shadow at a moment’s notice. But It’ll End in Tears I need to be in a place for.

xp well um

WELL

The Spangle Maker: FUCK YEAH

otm

― sleeve, Tuesday, October 13, 2020 10:37 PM (one week ago)

this song has ruined music. we're done here

In a moment of synchronicity, I am reading the collection of Grim Humour 1-10 that's just come out (and I recommend to you all) and #10 had a review of the Cocteau Twins show from 28th October 86.

It ends with the question "by the way, was that a tattoo of Siouxsie I saw on Liz Frazer's shoulder?"

But the review itself supports some of our period claims from above - "I've always liked the Cocteau Twins but on this live performance... well, they were boring, tiring, pretentious charmless... I found it all rather sad to be honest. This once fine band have burnt themselves out already. As John Peel once put it "they seem to have decayed into the bowels of their own beauty" and never a truer word was spoken."

A friend of mine saw them in 1990 and found it lifeless. It's hard to be spontaneous when you're a trio playing highly arranged songs backed by a drum machine.

I would definitely not expect to be knocked out by a live performance by this band

As John Peel once put it "they seem to have decayed into the bowels of their own beauty"

if you're gong to decay into bowels, though, what a way to go

Does anybody like the song "I Wear Your Ring," because I'm trying to work on a piano arrangement for this song and I'm worried that's it's too simple or something. It has three distinct melodies, so that's a plus. Maybe I could add something rhythmically in the left hand... I like the conga rhythm it starts with, maybe I could integrate that into the sections where there's not much going on.

A friend of mine saw them in 1990 and found it lifeless. It's hard to be spontaneous when you're a trio playing highly arranged songs backed by a drum machine.

I'm curious, where was this? One reason I like Cocteau Twin tapes from this era is the mixing is so strange. The engineers always seemed to mix the drum machines (e.g. TR-808) super loud so they bang like it was the club.

A good example from 1990:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijDrNshmn2c

skip to Cherry Coloured Funk (39:07).

Except the cut of "Teardrop" for House doesn't have Liz! (in the versions I've seen, maybe there's a longer cut)

I, embarrassingly, watched every episode of House. They would occasionally use the album version for dramatic scenes.

The concert was in Massey Hall in Toronto, which was built in 1894, and so the acoustics probably aren't ideal for making the drum machines bang like it was the club.

At Liverpool Royal Court in Oct '90, I just wanted them to turn the guitars UP. From where I was stood (near the back, late arrival) it was a hesitant wash, and it never really got going. But then, I'd seen Ride in Sheffield the previous night, my ears were probably blitzed from that (and I'd also slept in the station and had a ridiculously stressful journey to Merseyside involving two replacement buses).

They were much better in Wolverhampton and Warrington in '94. (Warrington is also where EFC hero Pat Nevin got me backstage and I had a brief fanboy chat with Liz, and a much less embarrassing encounter with members of Moose).

_WAIT - that's elizabeth fraser on Mezzanine?!?!!_


Was she ever. Last year's Massive Attack tour focused on that album -- a remarkable presentation -- featured her and over twenty-five years after I last saw her on the _Four Calendar Cafe_ tour -- where she was clearly not in the best of headspaces -- seeing her just gently/regally appear and do her two songs was so remarkable. I've been casual friends with the Chavis brothers from the Veldt for many years and they got to know Robin and Liz when Robin produced an unreleased album by them in 1990, and they met up with her backstage at one of the East Coast dates of the tour and the photos they posted and the memories made it clear they were very happy to see her again and vice versa, and that she's in good spirits. I value that very, very highly.

Robin produced an unreleased album by them in 1990

Are Apollo Heights (following on from The Veldt) finished? I completely missed their second album The Killer Of Sheep, but nobody actually seems to own it, so it must be unreleased?

Okay, they're The Veldt again now with two new EPs
https://theveldtmusic.bandcamp.com/
and an unreleased album called Resurrection Hymns. So the Chaivs Brothers have 3 unreleased albums? Killer Of Sheep was said to be their darkest thing yet.

Chavis Brothers, sorry.

https://www.facebook.com/VeldtThe/posts/3473214679401355?__tn__=-R
Still trying to release that first album!

right on

Toured with Seefeel last year and are working on a "vinyl" album now.

I'm still very, very annoyed that due to pure chance in planning, I missed both the Veldt playing in SF for the first time in forever the other year -- and the following week also missed the last Monkees tour as such for Good Times where the date I could have seen in Monterey was one of the very few Mike showed up at since he lives in the Carmel Valley. Had I reversed some dates on my end somehow I could have seen both!

An understandably disjointed but entertaining potted history of the Cocteaus, 4AD and various associated acts...

https://arcane-delights.com/2020/12/15/cocteau-twins-4ad-the-mary-chain-other-stories-an-interview-with-colin-wallace/

Cocteau Twins, 4AD, The Mary Chain & Other Stories – An Interview with Colin Wallace

Now desperately need to hear Liz Frazer singing ‘Baggy Trousers’.

What a great piece. Receiving these records on the other side of the world I thought it was all the work of gods, it’s hilarious to hear the real stories.

Yes, really enjoyed that! Thanks for sharing

i've been listening to all those eps SOOOOOO much this year. thanks for sharing that article, and thanks to many itt for pointing me in the right direction with the pair of cocteau musicians that make up the group <3

let me be clear: my cocteau twins fever has not resided. it has not faded away. no. in fact, it has only grown stronger, more interconnected, reinforced stronger still. i feel that i now have a strong handle on the 2 musicians that formed the pair, those two, those cocteau twins. up through Heaven or Las Vegas. I have actually never listened to them after that, to my knowledge.

i also now realize that the archetypal "ep band" was cocteau twins. the idea of a band putting lots of good shit on the eps, hard to find in a record shop, you gotta import it, etc - that's cocteau twins

will someone please call me out on my cocteau twins are only two musicians gag, it's holding me down and i need help eradicating it

please, someone tell me i was the first to think of it too

soooooo if the Cocteau Twins are two musicians then why did Harold Budd dedicate 'Flowered Knife Shadows' to Simon Raymonde

just tryin' to help

+ searched for saint who posted 'need-fire' to thread in recent months - many thanks

I fictionally tagged it as track 11 of 'Milk And Kisses' just to hear it more

will someone please call me out on my cocteau twins are only two musicians gag, it's holding me down and i need help eradicating it

Well, you are right regarding Head Over Heels and Victorialand. (Sorry.)

Sorry, I can't, Jerry & Debby Cocteau were in fact a magnificent musical duo.

just a check-in: i STILL have cocteau fever, and i'm beginning to think it's more like a chronic condition that i don't want to go away. but somehow, i held off on listening to anything after Heaven or Las Vegas, until today.

the album: Four-Calendar Cafe
the songs i thought were pretty good: "know who you are at every age", "evangeline"
the one i think is an all-time cocteau twins classic, and if i ever am in a diner and hear some wiseacre threatening his significant other by making fun of late cocteau twins and suggesting there's nothing there to find, i might walk over and be like "hey buddy, you're fucking wrong about that. the song is "PUR". google it sometime. it kicks ass. and now i'm about to kick YOUR ass", etc etc

but yeah, "pur" is the one for me. getting ready to do some milk & kisses

"violaine" fucking rules

OH SHIT!

"lullabies to violaine"...so that's why. ok. wait, does this mean that cocteau twins lyrics are supposed to make sense or reference anything tangible? because i'm not ready for this change

continued first impressions: milk & kisses is really good! was not expecting that. i don't know the band lore or what happened to liz or label stuff. i have the perception that people tend to drop off after las vegas, and there is a definite inflection point in their sound, before and after. but damn, some of milk & kisses really rules.

also, "sixteen days / gathering dust" rules. on a song-per-song basis, album/ep/mortal coil/harold buddin' around/house theme song, the consistent level of quality is astounding. they were either really prolific and good self-editing, or only played brilliant music, all the time. it's one of those. either way, well done, twins!