Terrorist attacks throughout Europe

Can’t believe the guy with nothing useful to contribute to any thread is continuing that streak here

it's a living

Oh, now you can see my posts.

Your question was: do you have any thoughts on this?

I think you know the answer

You’re not getting enough attention at home, got it.

too much actually

just catching up on the revive and this is a really interesting discussion. feel very enlightened by some posts itt.

once you pick thru all the people in the thread arguing that the murder was justified under sharia law

lol

Basic critical theory around identity (which you'd think French people would have an edge in) since at least the 1970s

le rire à haute voix

Depends. French critical theory is no monolith and can be quite critical of identity as well.

sorry, the LOL francaise was because Tracer and I were actually in the same critical theory/semiotics classes in the early 90s, where the majority of the texts were English translations of French writers.

I still have my copy of Mythologies by Barthes from MCM 11

Yeah, sorry, I don’t think we should engage in blasphemy. I’m not going to wear a feather crown, nor am I going to keep my shoes in a Mosque. I think respecting the notion that muslims don’t like demeaning caricatures of their prophet is pretty easy to understand, and pretty easy to act on. And that the only social reasons you would partake in such activities is to prove that you don’t care about respecting other people’s right to spiritual and cultural integrity.

I don’t have any regard for blasphemy as an offence, and it strikes me that several people itt are deliberately calling it this to deflect from the fact that it’s just disrespectful - like, if you’re discussing the subject, why use the CH ones?

The CH ones?

The Charlie Hebdo cartoons.

Oh yes, otm.

I think respecting the notion that muslims don’t like demeaning caricatures of their prophet is pretty easy to understand, and pretty easy to act on.

Yes. Of the billion plus individuals or organizations in the western nations, I'd say this easy and respectful action has been taken by almost every one of them. Of the hundreds of billions of original images published each year around the entire world, I'd say fewer than a thousand of them would be caricatures of their prophet. (I'm not so sure about India, so I said "thousand" rather than "a few dozen".)

why use the CH ones?

Perhaps, because this was a civics class in France and the response to these images by some French residents was of particular historic import? It's not like this was a completely random choice. Undoubtedly it was a poor choice, but the reasoning behind their use is quite accessible, even if flawed. I doubt the reasoning was, "I hate my muslim students and want to disrespect them as deeply as I can."

I doubt it too. It was a honest mistake, perhaps. My problem lies in the press, politicians and l'éducation nationale celebrating his actions with heroism.

In a country that celebrates Marine Le Pen this is not unexpected.

Agreed, also expecting that another violent attack relating to these cartoons will happen within a few years. Since no lessons has been learned. The RN's legitimacy will keep growing as a consequence.

Pretty much, yeah. None of the root causes are being addressed, and that's not bound to change any time soon.

I’m just glad you all aren’t talking about Darmanin’s remarks today. Obviously I’m more sympathetic to the mainstream French approach to this than others here, but Darmanin’s comments today were batshit.

Batshit and stupendously stupid.

If the French mainstream involves over ten million people voting for a fascist for the presidency, I’m not sure that’s much to be proud of.

Lol I saw that Euler. Darmanin may want to think about banning the insular, radical, uh, organic vegetable isolation in supermarkets as well. Different aisles for that shit. Drove me crazy in Auchan - the organic bananas being like three aisles over from the regular ones.

It just blows my mind how fucking stupid these people are

and they rule us! I just... I can't

Behold, the true face of terrorism:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcRElhqXUAAChmk.jpg

I eat so much halal food, Darmanin’s should try it, it can be great. Not so much the old El Paso but I get really good tortillas delivered from a place in Prague, really

Undoubtedly it was a poor choice, but the reasoning behind their use is quite accessible, even if flawed. I doubt the reasoning was, "I hate my muslim students and want to disrespect them as deeply as I can."

― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless),

I doubt it too. It was a honest mistake, perhaps. My problem lies in the press, politicians and l'éducation nationale celebrating his actions with heroism.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, October 21, 2020

No, this is not an honest mistake. It's ignorant and malign. It is like a classroom of white and Asian kids clips of I. Y. Yunioshi and Long Duk Dong and going 'hey, what's wrong with what I just did?'

glad "la vie de mahomet" de Charb is still available on amazon.

xpost Sure, if there had been a Long Duk Dong massacre and you were teaching a course on free expression. Otherwise, exactly the same.

No, this is not an honest mistake. It's ignorant and malign.

One can make mistakes.One's thinking can be ignorant. One's actions can be malign. All these characterizations fit the teacher's thinking and his actions well enough. But this does not mean that his reasoning was "I hate my muslim students and want to disrespect them as deeply as I can."

Do we have any evidence that this was his intent? If it was not his intent then there is no reason to impugn his honesty.

I think that part of the conversation here is that there is clearly a segment of French culture that allows for an atmosphere where such malign actions, intentional or unintentional, can flourish.

And another part of the conversation is that as long as that atmosphere persists, there will be horrific incidents such as the one in question. That isn't blaming the victim-- it's understanding the way that structures of culture and reactions against it work in the world

It’s not not blaming the victim

Whatever, I truly don't care about anything you say.

Feeling even more validated now tbh.

After slamming “Islamo-leftism,” France’s education minister has a new interview out today: “There’s a combat to be led” against an intellectual framework coming from US universities and intersectionality, which go against France’s republican model https://t.co/wX3Gk159mi pic.twitter.com/hpyiXjKeMp

— Cole Stangler (@ColeStangler) October 25, 2020

They might do a better job of peeling off some of those FN votes if they weren’t so coy about peddling this shit. Ofc all the fascists approvingly qting it will never vote for them when they can vote for the real deal, but as long as they can hide behind the values of the republic then there’s no problem. 🙃

jesus christ

Opposition to USA-style identity politics is widespread here. That’s not the difference between the FN and LREM e.g.

There's an important clue in the way the phrase "identity politics" others all identities beyond the bourgeois monoculture

"you have identity politics, we have the universal rights of man"

Lol just using “identity politics” is such a red flag in itself, literally denying the impact people’s ethnicity/gender/race etc has on their lives, but sure, liberty equality and brotherhood. Rich man and poor man are both forbidden alike from sleeping under bridges, after all.

I’m glad you’re such an expert in French life to know how identity politics functions here. I have so much to learn from you about where I live!

Tell me about how to treat poor people, British residents.

Hey Euler, either add us to your lengthy blocklist or explain why the ideas are fine and not bigoted. I notice you had nothing to say about Aimless’s clueless interjections, which was all fine as he was agreeing with you of course.

Tell me about how to treat poor people, British residents.