the Spielberg/Sorkin film about the trial of the Chicago Seven

also, after reading a bunch of stuff -- if I were one of the "other two guys" or someone with an interest in their legacy, I'd be pissed. The movie makes them look like college kids that are kinda dumb, as opposed to being almost 30 years old, with one being a college professor and the other a doctoral student. They totally could have still been portrayed as "out of their element" in terms of the trial, but in a different way. I am annoyed by this now that I know. Watching the movie, I didn't know who they were in reality, so it didn't bother me.

the binary of putting Abbie & Jerry’s sad deaths up against Tom just becoming a senator (oh gee did he live forever?) was fucking cruel & stupid & reductive

haha yeah -- they did kinda downplay Hayden's biggest "accomplishment" was being married to Jane Fonda for a long time (in terms of public recognition). Was half-expecting the movie to include a wink-wink allusion to Jane Fonda.

Though Rubin's death was kinda ... idk ... it was less sad and more absurd ... also dude got super rich and became kinda an asshole iirc? He died when I was in college, and I remember the response being "kinda sad but mostly lol" though I might totally be mis-remembering or have had a skewed sample due to the fact that there were people who viewed Rubin as a sell-out.

Was half-expecting the movie to include a wink-wink allusion to Jane Fonda

they did! "are you a friend of Jane Fonda" or something to that effect

oh shit!!! i missed that!

You come to expect that portrayals in these kinds of movies will fail by being too broad or too reductive or whatever...but again I just don't understand how they got Kunstler so...wrong?

The character in this movie is basically beleaguered, tired, having to reign in Hoffman and Rubin, "what have I gotten myself into?" etc. It's just grossly wrong. Kunstler was a giant, a firebrand, provacateur—even physically imposing—and I can only guess Sorkin felt they needed to dull him down to throw that pair into relief? Stupid.

as opposed to making the young prosecutor a sympathetic guy, as opposed to the huge raging asshole he apparently was irl

yes!

An alternate take: https://youtu.be/nTzYgiL2HiM

Before knowing anything about the real young prosecutor guy, I was watching this going, "this has to be some creative liberty going on here ... this is the historical equivalent of showing republican senators voting against Trump"

This was entertaining, stupid crap. I loathed the ending.

yeah the last three or so minutes were by far the worst. I will allow that as aforementioned the staging of Seale's gagging was quite effective.

xp blatherskite --oooooooooh Elliot Gould as Hoffman!!!

I think Gould is Weinglass in this

yup

Loggia as Kunstler >>> Rylance for sure, though this staging and editing style is all so painfully 1987 TV

in the youtube posted? the one where the actor playing Abbie Hoffman looks a lot like Elliot Gould?

the very same

okay I should get myself to that other thread for confusing actors with one another.

tbf the hyper grainy video quality is not much help!

iirc i *think* that HBO movie is available on Prime too so maybe slightly better quality

A movie I mentioned above, which is probably the best account you'll get of the trial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6PSsZfhDw0

(Even with Dershowitz.)

yeah that's a good doc

Before knowing anything about the real young prosecutor guy, I was watching this going, "this has to be some creative liberty going on here ... this is the historical equivalent of showing republican senators voting against Trump"

― sarahell, Monday, October 19, 2020 7:25 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes, the second he was introduced and had reservations about the case I was just like "fucking bullshit".

this was somehow worse than it should have been despite the bar for historical courtroom drama for me being pretty low. I was just looking for something workmanlike, this was below that bar. SBC was far too old to be playing Hoffman also

that's what happens when you stay attached to a project for 10 years of whatever

still, he was good, as was Langella as the prick judge

i think ruminating on it overnight i’m more annoyed than i was

i love rylance so much & he was really great in this BUT
Kunstler was CRAZY TALL and embodied a human tornado even standing still so why is he being portrayed by an actor literally half his size with a completely different presence

and even the theatrics of the trial was watered down...Ginsberg’s om chant, Judy Collins singing, Kunstler’s Viet Cong flag...none of it’s there, which in itself loses something of the manic intensity of this time period ... it kinda bugs me even more now that all that stuff is removed.

Like if you were there, and you watched this movie, would you recognize any of it? or anyone?

and it’s not that it’s sanitized so much as ...it’s so much more lifeless. and maybe a little dishonest? Compared to what they all were like in the room, or out in the world.

i dunno.
i think i’m going through something guys, lol

For me, it was the lifelessness. I can put up with embellishment and inaccuracy (within reason) if the film has other compensations--I didn't think this one had much.

yeah thats whats sticking in my craw the most now

I suspect The Social Network takes lots of liberties, but I can watch that over and over...Did Sean Parker actually ever say "Drop the 'The'--just 'Facebook'"? Maybe, maybe not--who cares, it's a great moment.

Did Sean Parker actually ever say "Drop the 'The'--just 'Facebook'"? Maybe, maybe not--who cares, it's a great moment.

the thing is, most of these dudes were super articulate and interesting in real life, like, the idea that they felt the need to "re-write" Fred Hampton and some of Hoffman and Rubin's exploits just seems absurd to me. Like the latter dudes were kings of content creation. At least they kept the judge robes/cop uniform bit. ... Can't believe the movie omitted Pigasus in its entirety. Like, having this fictional undercover cop seduce Rubin ... but no fucking Pig for President, which actually happened?

if the goal was to make a relatively "feel good" simplified version of this historical event ... why the FUCK would you CUT OUT the fact they ACTUALLY BROUGHT A REAL LIVE PIG to the rally and had a ceremony announcing its candidacy??!!!!

I too am going through something ... so pissed right now about Pigasus

What I meant was that I don't mind if playing around with facts works dramatically. It didn't work here at all.

Pigasus high on the list of unforgivable omissions sarahell otm

https://d3h6k4kfl8m9p0.cloudfront.net/stories/ho4KrnLgJHCP3-gjRGSj-Q-small.jpg

https://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/PA-12408291.jpg

this thread has a Dr. Morbius sized hole in it now ... :(

;_;

I have rarely felt more like Roger Ebert than I did while watching this film. It is probably bullshit for all of the reasons stated in this thread, and I'm sure there is some documentary that does these people and this story a much greater service than this film does, but as a slick Hollywood courtroom drama, I was involved and entertained. There is no way this is among the eight best films of this or any other year, but it is an example of the kind of movie that Hollywood does well--or at least used to do very well: I can imagine myself going to see it with my parents 25 or 30 years ago and all of us being caught up in it. Pile on me if you like, but please let me reiterate that I have no doubt that I am wrong about this movie and you are all correct.

Wow at PSH and Will Smith being some of the early potential casting.

Interesting Sorkin and Fincher chat.

xp I agree with you!

never saw Steal This Movie

actually didn't *hate* Sorkin's weird scolding bs but that was mostly due to performances and hey the guy can occasionally reel you in

i just watched this though and it's kind of rad? unfortunately some (certainly not all!) of the animated vignettes & voice perfs are clunky and the soundtrack is kind of uh not great. but a ton of nicely compiled video & audio footage (probably all available on youtube now). same guy who did the Robert Evans Kid Stays in the Picture fyi. anyway:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_10_(film)