Cocteau Twins : Classic or Dud

what are the antecedents of this band? I read somewhere that as high-haired scottish late teens/20 somethings, they were way into Siouxie… and that they collaborated with Harold Budd suggests that they had an interest in minimalist composition…but I have a harder time intuiting what they must have been into initially for inspiration than I do peers like, say, MBV…would they have been into the Berlin Trilogy? and I guess Fraser likes Tim Buckley…lemme know them thoughts…

From their website:

The band members have cited among their influences such artists as Patsy Cline, Roy Orbison, The Ronettes, and the Beach Boys, and reminiscences of these can be heard in the thick textures and melodies of Love's Easy Tears. Loud and trebled guitar roar and chime over thumping drums and a dancing bass and, of course—that voice—which pierces the colorful washes of sound with candy-coated choruses and howls of non-specificity.

howls of non-specificity

working title for Smile

been a while since I had a DN, thanks

let me just check out the allmusic review for the pink opaque, written by one..let's see...ned raggett? never heard of him. but ned says " The version of Garlands' "Wax and Wane" included here is slightly remixed and arguably even better than the original, bringing out everything a little more clearly and powerfully.", and to that i say YESSSSSS, because i love the original

Also the only release you can find Millimillenary on, I think?

it seems that when i set off to purchase cocteau twins records, i can do no wrong!

Yup. Also I have no idea who that guy is.

ned otm about the pink opaque version of wax and wane. i’m biased because it’s the first way i heard it

Anyway I'm pleased to see that the legendary Great Pop Things strip on how the band came to be is still easily found:

https://wewillhavesalad.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/cocte.jpg?w=768&h=256

bc of this thread i listened to treasure for the first time and holy shit lorelai, i knew i remembered it from somewhere and it was sampled by the field

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0aI6CJHqKs

which if i had bothered to listen to this on youtube years ago i wouldve learned sooner, but o well

I don’t agree with whatever ppl think Treasure lags in the middle, nfw

Treasure has great stuff but I am kind of done with it, after 30+ years, in a way that I’m not done with other stuff of theirs.

Anyway, this Sunday:

For Cocteau Twins lovers everywhere and even those of you who are curious, I am hosting a @LlSTENlNG_PARTY for our '93 lp Four-Calendar Cafe on Sunday 10pm 18th October (Uk time) so please join me for some music and stories to boot..... pic.twitter.com/FjMJWhmg0e

— mrsimonraymonde (@mrsimonraymonde) October 16, 2020

Abbey and I visited THE four-calendar canteen in CT’s honour in Bandung, Indonesia a couple of years and met some AMAZING CT fans. Here is a photo abbey took pic.twitter.com/6zgI5J74Xn

— mrsimonraymonde (@mrsimonraymonde) October 18, 2020

most of my cocteau binge came in yesterday and this morning!

tiny dynamine/echoes in a shallow bay 2-fer
the pink opaque
peppermint pig

the dynamine/echoes compilation is great. i have another release by Vertigo, a comp of Kraftwerk 1 and 2, that is similarly excellent quality. i especially love the dynamine ep, out of the two. on a scale of warm hue combos, i am going to give this release 2 oranges, 2 pinks, and 1 red.

peppermint pig 12", i need to listen to it again, but i remember thinking that i liked the songs on the b-side ("laugh lines" and "hazel") a bit more than the single. i'll give it 1 orange, and 2 pinks, due to the pig theme.

the pink opaque is an instant favorite record for me, even though it's a comp. i think i love every goddamn song on there, and i've played it 5-6 times since i got it yesterday. 8 pinks, 4 purples, and 1 red.

the most reissue of blue bell knoll is on its way to my apartment tomorrow. :D

btw, i haven't allowed myself the luxury of reading through LBI's cocteau twins poll. i want to wait juuuust a bit longer, until i have a better grasp on garlands and head over heels. then i can scroll through the rollout with maximum fandom. can't wait!

so happy for you! Head Over Heels was the first LP I got of theirs and in many ways is my favorite.

another simple luxury that i'm going to partake in at this very moment: I AM READING THE WHOLE WIKIPEDIA ENTRY. here we go.

(Fraser had Siouxsie tattoos on her arms for several years).[13]

amazing what a simple use of past tense can add

did not know that!

Chapman, Rob (July 1998). "Dark Side of the Spliff: Massive Attack". Mojo. "Have you met Liz?" 3D splutters with laughter. "[...] She loved our Siouxsie and the banshees sample off ‘Metal Postcard’ — she’d just had this Siouxsie and the Banshees tattoo removed from her arm.
King, Richard (2012). How Soon is Now?: The Madmen and Mavericks who made Independent Music 1975-2005. Faber & Faber. ISBN 0571243908. Colin Wallace, their friend, confident and roadie has come from the same background as Fraser; Heggie and Gutrhie. [...] he says, '[...] Elisabeth was a huge Siouxsie fan - she had Siouxsie tattoos which she's had lasered off since'.

to be fair, Siouxsie was huge in the pre-Cocteau postpunk scene, 1978-1980

over on the this mortal coil wikipedia entry:

One of the label's earliest signings was Modern English. In 1983, Watts-Russell suggested that the band re-record two of its earliest songs, "Sixteen Days" and "Gathering Dust", as a medley. At the time, the band was closing its set with this medley, and Watts-Russell felt it was strong enough to warrant a re-recording. When the band rebuffed the idea, Watts-Russell decided to assemble a group of musicians to record the medley: Elizabeth Fraser and Robin Guthrie of Cocteau Twins; Cindy Sharp of Cindytalk; and a few members of Modern English.[6] An EP, Sixteen Days/Gathering Dust, resulted from these sessions. A cover of Tim Buckley's "Song to the Siren", performed by Fraser and Guthrie alone, was recorded as a B-side for the EP. Pleased with the results, Watts-Russell decided to make this the A-side of the 7" single version of the EP, and the song quickly became an underground hit, leading Watts-Russell to pursue the recording of a full album under the This Mortal Coil moniker, 1984's It'll End in Tears.[6]

i didn't realize that the "song to the siren" cover was so key to the whole this mortal coil origin story! it's also, so it seems, where they met Simon Raymonde. damn. sometimes, when you got it, you got it

ya gotta hear her do Roy Harper's "Another Day" on the 1st TMC album, dear god in heaven it is one of the most heartrendingly beautiful things I have ever heard

I also love "16 Days", so badass, wailing banshee action

is there a version of 16 days by itself, or is it always combined with gathering dust?

always combined (although you can split them with a WAV editor), the original 7" just had the "reprise" as the B-side:

https://www.discogs.com/This-Mortal-Coil-Song-To-The-Siren/release/91768

(I have never heard the Modern English original)

On 31 January 2005, Cocteau Twins announced that they would be reforming to perform at the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival on 30 April 2005, and later indicated that additional tour dates would be added. However on 16 March, the reunion was cancelled after Fraser announced that she would not take part. In a 2009 interview, Fraser said she could not go through the pain of sharing the stage with her former lover Guthrie, the issue behind the band's 1997 breakup.[22] Raymonde revealed that the band had also booked a 55-date world tour, which would have paid him £1.5 million.[9]

lol, raymonde was like "can you two pleeeeeease just do a temporary truce, whatever this is"

WAIT - that's elizabeth fraser on Mezzanine?!?!!

jfc

i loved mezzanine so much. it was one of the first CDs i ever bought. amazing.

half the world has heard liz fraser, because Teardrop is the theme song to house

half the world has heard liz fraser, because Teardrop is the theme song to house

i'm sure a lot of people have thought - gedda load-of-those pipes!

they should have used Inertia Creeps for that show

it totally makes sense, though. i loved 'teardrop' so much that i always made it my mixtape/cd representation of massive attack, for my friends. one song per artist, obviously.

"Gathering Dust" is the other great postpunk song with a laser battle in it, along with Joy Division's "Insight".

Except the cut of "Teardrop" for House doesn't have Liz! (in the versions I've seen, maybe there's a longer cut)

the world is stupid

i didn't realize that the "song to the siren" cover was so key to the whole this mortal coil origin story! it's also, so it seems, where they met Simon Raymonde. damn. sometimes, when you got it, you got it

― president of my cat (Karl Malone), Thursday, October 22, 2020 8:23 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Martin Aston's 4AD book is a treasure trove of info like this. And there's a lot of Cocteau Twins content in that tome iirc. I came away with a new appreciation for 4AD after reading it despite not really caring about half of the label's output

threw Pink Opaque on last night, albeit in the background, and rediscovered Aikea Guinea, Wax and Wane and Hitherto. but some other tracks weren't as good as i remembered them (or weren't memorable)

Aston book is great *but* it outrageously names the pub over the road from 4AD as the Slug & Lettuce. Come on, man, that chain didn't exist until '85. No way no damn Xmal Deutschland logo was designed in a Slug & Lettuce. :) (It was definitely a S&L for all of the '90s).

(Actually, 4AD-haters are probably very amused by the parallels with that much-maligned chain of airy, spacious, stripped-pine bars.)

I believe Millimillenary was the first thing Simon R and Robin G wrote together, late '83. One of my faves on Pink O.

I remembered last night that I am legally obligated to post this 1985 news report every time this thread is revived

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaOlNfC8_xQ

^^ it's in my YT faves like, ten times

lol, thank you for that. love the newsteam touching their hair at the end there

to be fair, Siouxsie was huge in the pre-Cocteau postpunk scene, 1978-1980

I love that the same post punk Siousxie adoration that produced the Cocteaus somehow produced Altered Images.

I read somewhere (maybe the Martin Aston 4AD book) that when Ivo first heard the Cocteaus it was on such a shitty quality demo tape that he couldn't even hear Liz's voice but he was intrigued by the guitar sound and he asked them to come and play. So Liz Frazer was something of an unexpected bonus!

Yay Cocteau fever !

WAIT - that's elizabeth fraser on Mezzanine?!?!!

Was she ever. Last year's Massive Attack tour focused on that album -- a remarkable presentation -- featured her and over twenty-five years after I last saw her on the Four Calendar Cafe tour -- where she was clearly not in the best of headspaces -- seeing her just gently/regally appear and do her two songs was so remarkable. I've been casual friends with the Chavis brothers from the Veldt for many years and they got to know Robin and Liz when Robin produced an unreleased album by them in 1990, and they met up with her backstage at one of the East Coast dates of the tour and the photos they posted and the memories made it clear they were very happy to see her again and vice versa, and that she's in good spirits. I value that very, very highly.

the idea of Liz having Siouxsie tats, and then having them removed, threw me into a lengthy reverie yesterday