No more pallet puzzles: THE LAST OF US PART II

TBF you can enable it on any difficulty, so if I'm in an extra masochistic mood and decide I want to try a Permadeath run, I'll probably do it on the easiest difficulty.

Also, I'm clearly sneaking up on the clickers wrong: https://youtu.be/qCV4ivXi190?t=5206

I might have to reload an autosave (hopefully) because I had to clear that section with 6 bullets.

I've been thinking a little about the shape of the narrative as it relates to empathy, namely how as you approach Abby and Ellie's confrontation, the amount of empathy the player has for each character is a mirror image. We start off liking Ellie, but over her Seattle section, she does more and more to lose that empathy; when we play Abby in Seattle, it's the exact opposite, but we grow to empathize with her the more we play her.

Finished this last night. Goddamn it.

Based on some of the clickbait-y online discourse I was really worried the story was going to be misery porn. Thankfully it isn’t—it’s heavy and sad and even mildly upsetting at times but it is earned. I was constantly taken aback by the quality of the acting and how much the performances carry the story, even through the weaker parts.

Gameplay-wise it felt almost identical to the first but I was pretty cool with that. Graphics obv were amazing.

Things I didn’t care for:

-The Seraphite cult was a little undersketched and kinda corny. Loved Lev though, he was cool.

-While I wouldn’t quite call them afterthought, the infected could have had a bigger presence in the game. As a monster lover I really wanted more variety in their types. That said, the infected coming out of the walls and the big blobby Thing-like hospital basement monster were pretty gnarly.

Overall pretty fantastic game.

welp
https://www.vulture.com/2020/11/the-last-of-us-show-hbo.html

I'll probably watch it someday. I'd prefer if it came up with an original set of characters and story, but I doubt they're gonna go that way

ahh the lure of “original IP”

man what an experience. i'm trying to retain some critical faculty and say it had the storytelling quality already common to contemporary fiction or season-length tv, but something about the identification-thru-control of video games adds a much more direct connection in terms of pathos. i was frequently very impressed and more often moved than i have been by, idk, HBO in a long time

i followed the culture war skirmishes of its release only passively but in retrospect it's maddening. sure you had lots of plainly bigoted resistance -- queerness and (uh oh) Gender Trouble is front and center thru the entire story. but there was plainly a ton of snarling anguish at being made to feel something people didn't want to feel.

the worst you can say about the story thematically is that it's hypocritical. like are you really giving me an extended meditation on the warped produce of violence while i'm pulling off so many sick headshots. the worst thing you can say about that gameplay is that it's Cabinet Scrounging Simulator 2020.

i think it pulled off a modernist tragedy. the double revengers arc doesn't complete either way, it's just laid down too late. neither heroine is able to make herself understood to the other. more than just a thwarted crowd-pleasing "rivals teaming up at the finale." ellie doesn't make the final boat trip to catalina herself, maybe to give to the fireflies what joel prevented (though i think it's hinted that mel was abby's father's intellectual heir; so much for that)

i just realized looking at this thread title that there is one (1) pallet in part II and it's a gag

did you ever figure out a slick way to deal with the dogs? they probably gave me more anxiety than anything else in the game.

cry and retry?

not really. pick off the handler from afar, after that the dogs just kind of wander in place

https://kotaku.com/senior-couple-was-having-trouble-with-tlou2-he-answere-1847996198

OK, I just dipped in for a few minutes. My first reaction was, wow, does this game look good. My second was the legit emotions that washed over me, which really underscores how incredible the first game really is. It's immediately such a bittersweet reunion, and I can only imagine things don't get sunnier. Thankfully, I've somehow managed to remain spoiler free, but that inevitably means it's going to be an extra wrenching run.

yeah you have no idea :/

word

I'm barely into it, but I called down my wife to check out the early snow scenes. She was impressed, and said "just looking at this makes me cold."

She asked me if a video game has ever made me cry, and I said totally, at their best they are just as effective as movies and books or whatever. The beginning of "Ori" is up there with the beginning of "Up."

Man, the weight of this game ... things got really dark and shocking and mean pretty quickly, even for "The Last of Us."

The technical achievements of this game alone are kind of mind blowing. But most impressive, even early on (I'm in Seattle) are all the details that they just didn't have to stick in but did, not just foliage or tiny remnants of the "old" world but character moments as well. Ellie was at the music store with Dina, and there's that moment with the A-ha song where I realized, huh, they had to pay the rights for this song and write and animate this whole sweet sequence, but the section is not only totally skippable (afaict), I could easily imagine some folks missing it entirely on the way to the next properly scripted story moment.

Game's really ramping up. Just hit the TV station and tunnel sequences. It does a great job nudging you toward different strategies/approaches, like using bricks or bombs not just to take out WLF but to attract clickers to them. Def. pretty brutal. I assume (hope?) it evolves into more than just a vengeance quest, but if it doesn't the scenery alone should suffice.

It's pretty amazing this was made for the PS4, though I guess the likes of God of War and Horizon Zero Dawn did a pretty good job showcasing that system, too. TLOU2 was I guess optimized for the PS5, but I think it was just limited to a better frame rate, which really underscores the current generation's place (at least for now) as a sort of PS4 Pro Pro.

The birthday side trip to the science museum was predictably touching. It's the quiet moments that really made the first game, and they seem to be a highlight of the second as well, though I do sense that the story is set to shift.

https://media.giphy.com/media/UrsOTbx6xh20IXChwR/giphy.gif

That's more frightening than anything in the game.

And now there are dogs. Fortunately, From has eroded any sympathy I have for video game dogs.

Just encountered the creepy whistling people. I don't think I like them very much.

About to begin Seattle Day 3. It's wild how you simultaneously play as Ellie but also feel so bad for Ellie, the character, external to you, the player.

Lol there’s a few twists in that tale

I've managed to keep myself totally spoiler free for the past two years, but I have been playing the game knowing that for a certain set of people the game was "divisive." I may possibly be playing that section right now? I see its narrative/thematic value, but I can also see how it's maybe for some a bit like the island segment of "Red Dead Redemption 2." I dunno, I have no idea what bothered some people, maybe I haven't hit whatever some consider a sticking point, though more likely the people complaining were just assholes.

Still have no idea how the game/story is going to end, so it remains pretty compelling.

I think that's more or less the case, though it happens at a very confrontational inflection point because that part of the game ends on a cliffhanger, and I really wanted to find out what happens to Ellie! But I gradually got used to it.

Yeah it begins to take some incredible turns after Ellie's 2nd day. Where you at now?

I've been playing as Abby for a while now. I just teamed up with some Scars/ex (?) Seraphites on the way to see what's up with Owen at the aquarium.

Anybody done this on “Grounded” difficulty? eg they hear everything, very high damage, almost no supplies, and you lose the ability to see through walls. I did Part 1 this way and loved it

I imagine that might be a fun way to play if you know the game really well. Or if you want it to seem more "real."

Hmmm, it looks like I have 5 more acts/14 chapters of this game to go. That's a bunch!

I think I generally don't want my narrative games to be too hard, can't believe people play the Ironman mode for game that's as long as this

on Part I it made me appreciate the avenues that bottles and bricks can open for you, since you have to be so conservative with your ammunition. it makes you really think sometimes in ways that never even hit you at all on normal mode

Was not expecting this game to turn into Resident Evil, but I guess it was a good sequence. I'm at the start of Abby's Seattle Day 3, and it seems like everyone is getting some sort of complicated redemptive arc, even the dogs.

Wow. The inevitable fight between the parallel protagonists is so brutal and vicious, and making you play it as Abby is downright sadistic. Like I said, I've avoided the discourse for the past two years, but I can't imagine this sat well with many. I get it, it's a game about the cycle of violence, but I feel there was a better way to show that that didn't involve rubbing your face in it. Didn't help that it followed right after the gratuitously over the top escape from the fiery village, which again, felt like a very Resident Evil (by way of Uncharted) setpiece.

I'm at the farm house now. I have no idea if this is the end of the game or not or whatever is going on. It's clearly a built-in breather after what came before, which is welcome, since I almost didn't want to finish what came before.

Damn you crushed this game, well done

I think there's more but I can't remember

Oh there's more.

I've decided life's too short for Grounded so I'm doing Survivor+ mode which I've now realised is going to stock me up with hella weapons once I get to Seattle.. not actually what I want.. I need the full-fat Survivor. Maybe I just play conservatively but on Normal I always had plenty of supplies, often having to pass things up because I was maxed out

I never got far into my NG+ because I just couldn't figure out how to actually creep up on clickers! I probably needed to go more slowly but I always felt like they were actually outpacing me and thus getting out of killing range.

OK, *now* I'm done. Wow, what a heartbreaking and depressing story. I've got to give credit where credit is due, after the first game's story this wasn't the only direction the story could go in, but it may be the bravest, narratively speaking. Both games are sort of Old Testament bleak, and the muddled morality of the first one logically leads to the even harsher themes of the second game. Still, there are some things that leave me torn, some by design, some ... I don't know how I feel.

Maybe spoilers? This is a two year old game, and the thread is old, so ... be forewarned?

First off, the game is a technological marvel (I played the upgraded PS5 version), and while I am not sure I am better off having played it (since it intentionally eats away at memories of the first, like a cancer), anyone that has *not* played the first game but is getting to do so for the first time in its freshly remade iteration, with this game's tech and look, I'm jealous. The level of detail here is mind-boggling. At one point I ran up a hill wet with rain, and I had to go back a second to confirm that, yes, there were tiny trickles of water running down through the mud, almost invisible in the near darkness.

Second, Ellie (and Joel) are such, again, almost Biblically tragic characters, doomed to never be happy because of what brought them together, and both here are again remarkably written and portrayed, especially in such a rough context. Dina, too, for that matter, and of course Abby. I think spending so much time on Abby was an audacious gamble, but one that ultimately pays off, forcing you to identify with the ostensible villain in a why that can only come from hours of immersion playing as her. There are sentimental and manipulative tricks to the trade at work throughout this, of course, but being able to depict even fleeting moments of joy and tenderness, from different perspective, in something this ugly is really something.

That said, a lot of it truly *is* ugly, and not just in an exploration of the cycles of violence and revenge sort of way, in a really grotesque, cruel, even unpleasantly sadistic way that goes far beyond what the story called for, imo, with a gross reliance on torture that probably could have been handled better. Likewise, all the Santa Barbara stuff really feels like an afterthought, down to its generic enemies; that and the ott showpiece of the fiery village escape seemed disappointingly boilerplate. I feel like it all could have been wrapped up better, without resorting to yet another battle, and another bloody confrontation, especially after all the horribleness we/they have had to endure. It was never going to be a happy ending, but the story could still be bittersweet or sad without almost literally hitting you over the head with it, again and again, until you're just a bloody pulp.

I don't know. Something can be visceral without being repellent. Ellie is in a lot of ways the latest version of John Wayne's character in "The Searchers," and she maybe deserved a similarly subtle send-off. Which the game does in essence tack on at the very, very end, but it left me with mixed feelings. Don't get me wrong, it's all an incredible experience, and in total an impressive continuation of the story. Complex, (emotionally) challenging and morally complicated, never boring. But I'm torn as to whether I'd want it continued any further; a grave can only be dug so deep. I could, however, totally see myself playing the first game again. I wonder how playing this game will inform that one, going backwards?

good post. agree with most of it, especially the visual splendor - i think it's a surprisingly moving aspect of the game, or maybe intentional to counteract the conceptual bleakness. Abby's section was a really brave and effective narrative and game design decision, really the whole thing is.

good eye on The Searchers, didn't catch that as I was playing but almost certainly in their minds, especially with the final shots

Santa Barbara i feel like was a necessary chapter to complete the story but also was very hopeless and upsetting, no doubt. i kind of don't want to see a Part III either, just leave it. Druckmann said something to the effect that if they made a Part III it would have to be a much more uplifting story

waiting for the remaster to hit $20 before I buy TLOU 1 yet again

Some more thoughts, having caught up on old discussions/debates.

I mentioned the look on PS5, but a lot of the clips and videos I watched discussing the game were of course drawn from the original PS4 version. Supposedly the PS5 upgrades were mostly to the frame rate, but man, do the PS5 improvements really make a difference visually, at least to my eye. Faces, things like that. When the trailer for the Last of Us Part 1 remake came out, people were all, eh, looks the same. But I watched one of those Digital Foundry videos, and they went through it all in detail, and came away with wtf, the improvements are significant and obvious!

Anyway, still sitting with this game, which is a testament. I found it remarkable (if maybe not so surprising) how so many people seemed to have had the exact reactions I did, as I was having them, which shows the care and skill put into the game and its story. And as a couple of videos I watched noted, a lot of those feelings and reactions were only possible because this is a video game. As I tried to explain to my wife (without spoilers, since she is watching the show) is that when you read a book that switches perspective, you are typically given a glimpse into their mind and motivations. But when you *play* as that character, for several hours, you are essentially *sharing* a mind and motivation with that character. You are told what you need to do and in many cases you have no choice about it. It's how the story is written, how it has to be. And yet, because you are still the co-pilot, your own morality and sense of right and wrong inevitably, unavoidably plays at least a passive role, and in a few key moments here, an active role, or at least the illusion of an active role.

It's an incredible, and incredibly effective, trick. How do you push the feelings and emotions of the player so far that you can all but guarantee they will feel exactly what you want them to feel, when you want them to? Maudlin or manipulative cut scenes are one way; I love "Ori," but that opening is a straight-up heartbreaking sequence a la "Up." Here they figured out a way to push things further, to make you do the wrong thing even while justifying it as the right thing, and vice versa. No wonder it left me seasick.

While doing retroactive research, I found this fascinating lecture from Druckmann about the creation of the first game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjwuPeqZt0s

It's amazing how often it flirted with failure as the team inched closer and closer to what we're all familiar with now. And it all came down to doing right by the characters and story.

Oh, and back to Part II, there are *still* people bitching and complaining about the game in 2023, which I suspect is a combination of immaturity or outright assholes, reactionaries uncomfortable with this game's queasiness who are acting out as a form of denial or projection. And that's not even factoring in the fucking misogynists, homophobes or all around incels. But fuck them. I have yet to come across a negative review of this game from someone operating in anything close to good faith.

A lot of the review sites that I follow (which definitely aren't coming from reactionary MRA viewpoints) didn't like the game, though, and I don't think it's from an inability to empathize with Abby -- the brutality is a LOT to handle, especially as we follow Ellie's descent.

I agree about the violence, and made mention of it as I was playing, but I think that helps make my/the point. Many games we play are innately violent. So what is it about *this* game that made it particularly unpalatable to some people? I think it's because they pushed it so far that it goes beyond fun (which is gross to even write, lol). It's unpleasant. Which of course is kind of a mixed win.

As for Abby, I sort of also agree, but I think the game maybe did the best it could with that. Abby can be made more sympathetic, but she'll never be as sympathetic as Ellie because of the first game. What they did manage to do was at least earn Abby some empathy. She may never be as sympathetic as Ellie, who you have been playing/rooting for a lot longer, but by depicting their journeys in parallel they did show how Abby could have easily been Ellie or vice versa in different circumstances, and that is what made the conflict so complex, despite the emotional advantage Ellie has.

On paper of course they did a great job juggling all the arcs, imo. In the first game, Joel is infected with his own virus, which robs him of his humanity; Ellie is the cure. Ellie's journey here is the inverse, starting out human but quickly descending from there, making the selfish choice to increasingly sacrifice her waning humanity for the sake of vengeance (which is again the inverse of Joel, who selfishly abandons humanity at large for the sake of his own personal humanity). Which brings you to Abby, who we experience regaining her lost humanity due to her own shepherding quest a la Joel in the first game (so much so that when she started crafting shivs I was struck by a sudden sense of deja vu). Just a bunch of intersecting arcs criss-crossing over the same timeline.

It's such a powerful moment when those flashes of bloody Joel give way to what turns out to be Ellie's final interaction with him, which opened to door to hope and forgiveness. The realization that she had in effect achieved closure only to throw it all away suddenly becomes apparent to her, and it's devastating. The same thing happens with Abby, who dreams of all those horrible ways her dad died, only to finally reach a place where she can remember him in a positive light. But of course, she's on the (relative) upswing, a la Joel at the end of the first game. But Ellie is left a lot like Joel at the start of the first game, broken, empty and hopeless. And knowing it's pretty much all her fault. That's one heck of a bad trip.

I restarted in Grounded+ and I’m being lulled into thinking I can handle it because the first bits are so easy and I’ve just done them on Survivor

I like it so far. No health meter! So no way to check if you need to heal I guess?? Just gotta feel the vibe. No listen mode. Which is really excellent. Going around corners quite scary. Though you still do get that moment once you’ve cleared an area where the music changes and you’re like “whew, I think that’s the last of them.” A little corny - a truly realistic mode would not contain those moments. But I suppose the game would just be too unbearably tense without them.

This game would be sooooo stressful without the "all clear" music. Even as I played it, every time a character said "OK, that's the last of them," or "I think they're all dead" or whatever, I would wait a couple of seconds fully expecting some monster to burst through the wall.

Lolllll that would be both extremely cruel and also extremely hilarious

The way the horses cause the snow to slough off those fir trees when you’re riding with Dina

<3 <3

Started playing this the other day (before playing the first, waiting for the pc release next month). Biggest stand out so far is THE SOUND! I just got a subwoofer and this game wooooorks it for those tense encounters with the underlying bass drone happening throughout. The dynamic range is great too, it’s nice to have fun shots and explosions have the volume of gunshots and explosions as opposed to everything existing at the same volume as it is with most games. Contributes greatly to the sense of “violence” talked about above when a gunshot booms out of nothing to take a life while a WLF starts screaming in agony. The silence and general ambience of puzzle/walk sections is great too, gives it a similar somber/epicness that no country for old men had for similar reasons. Going to miss the use of dynamic range the most when I move on to another game.