playing basketball

played ball in high school -- i was okay, and at least tall -- but a year ahead of me was kevin lloyd, who was also not that good and of merely average height. but he was fuckin dirty. i mean we were on the same team but he would absolutely try to knee me in the groin in *practice*. in games i saw him literally spit on people.

his dad was also kevin lloyd, better known as spanky. they were a . . . florid people. our team colors were orange at home and black on the road, and 30+ years later i can still hear spanky (who later became mayor) at our away games bellowing 'D IT UP BLACK'

it's a phrase i simply cannot shake

nice

my kids are suddenly both super into basketball. i now know where the hoops are in my neighborhood. though they have no opportunity to get involved with a team for obvious reasons. i go with them sometimes. i can still shoot okay. i have no moves though. i never did.

my kids have evinced zero interest in watching the finals. today i asked them why. “it’s boring watching other people play” they said

they need a rooting interest

otm

yeah and nobody at school talks about it etc (we live outside the us). one of them has decided golden state is his team because of curry.

curry seems to have a cachet among young people that no other player has recently equalled

i was gonna suggest a french player, but none of the active ones seem to have much cachet

curry is awesome but hitching oneself to a 32yo won't end well

the best french player rn is probably gobert and he is for herbs (aka jazz fans)

killian hayes is french and is about to be a top 10 draft pick, so that might be exciting

granny hows that ankle?

I started playing again about 6 months ago after taking 3+ years off. its been really fun but ive lost like 30% of my game. legs are cooked after a couple games and my confidence is low. just once a week for now, might need to ramp up. the best guy in this group is probably 55-60 years old... the reason he's the best? well its cos we play 1s and 2s and this dude is probably like a legit 70% shooter from three. dont think ive ever seen him miss two in a row and he only needs an inch of space. my outside shot is completely abandoned me but my midrange pull up and around the basket touch is still my calling card. just sucks that im not helping my team much cos im not knocking down 3s. been thinking about bringing up switching to 2s/3s but theyve had this group running for 20+ years so i probably wont try and disrupt anything.

"I often think about how pickup 1s/2s scoring overweights the three, but how that may be counterbalanced by the fact that you don't see a lot of true knockdown 3 shooters in pickup games."

Don't find this to be true. Most guys I play with, 3's is their main bball skill and they are lethal from there. I'm always trying to score games 2/3's instead of 1/2s (even moreso before I improved my 3 pt shooting). I do not understand where the 1/2s thing came from and why it overtook 2/3s as the standard.

was trying to explain to one guy how 1/2s overweights the long distance shot, but he couldn't grasp it. "but 2 is one more than 1, just like 3 is one more than 2...". i'm sure there's a lot of other guys out there who don't get it, either.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:08 PM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

haha

― Spottie, Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:21 PM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

so much frustration from working hard to get 6 high percentage buckets...and then the 5 ft 2 sharpshooter drains 3 in a row from behind the arc in like 30 seconds and it's a tie game.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:10 PM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

I just got the email that the weekly game in the neighborhood is back. I'm kind of scared... so out of shape

i hesitated for months cos of that but it was fine once i started going. just played a game or two the first couple weeks back.

Ankle getting better by the hour Spottie! Thanks for asking. Sat out last night (runs are Tues and Thurs), prob could give it a go Tues but would be smart to wait til next Thurs. Managed to avoid injury for long time now so I was due.

Yeah it sucks when you're an interloper and can't really say shit about how they do the 2s and 1s thing. Or "maker's/winner's outs", which is just as antithetical to the balance of the game.
Are you doing full court?
Come up to Sedona some time and hoop my dude!

good to hear its nothing too serious.

yah we're running 5s full but about half the time we end up with 8-9 dudes and run 4s full which im not in love with. average age is probably about 43 so the speed is good by me. good group overall.

my daughter is doing city hoops right now and my 2nd son is too so we are doing a lot of shooting/horse/games at the house of late. been loving that and seeing their improvement. ill catch them both out there on their own shooting a couple times per week, brings a tear to my eye. my daughter has the two handed push shot going which is kinda unfortunate, trying to coach her through breaking that habit before its too late.

sedona ball would be sick, if im up there ever ill hit you up.

my daughter has the two handed push shot going which is kinda unfortunate, trying to coach her through breaking that habit before its too late.

how old is your daughter? i thought this was pretty normal for most kids

10. it is kinda normal but pretty pronounced. the real problem is probably that they play on 10 foot rims and it should be 9 foot at this age.

When we don't have 10 guys (hasn't been happening lately, finally built back up a solid group of regulars; struggled for awhile with low turnout after resuming from lengthy covid shutdown) we just do half court 4s. Full court 4s is too "empty" just like half court 5s is too crowded (on Tuesdays we only have a half court, so only do 4 on 4). Love the vibe we're cultivating. I'm in the position to be able to just kick out guys who are jerks, or harass them enough that they don't wanna come lol. Recently had one guy who was good but just total cocky asshole ballhog, and eventually everyone else followed my lead and let him know either stop killing the vibe or stop coming.

I was reminded of said asshole by Spottie mentioning not really being able to come into an established run and change how they keep score. Cause very first night that guy came he wanted to change to 1s and 2s. Knew he was gonna be trouble then.

i love half but these guys want to 'get a run in'... where id rather play more games then run old man full. theres not a lot of fast breaks as it is so its just lightly jog to one end then play half then lightly jog to the other end and play half, rinse and repeat.

these guys i play with are very protective of who they let in. i happened to know one of them really well who was able to vouch for me and get me an invite. even then it took them 3 months to get me on the text chain. my first week i pissed off one of the regulars for playing too physical inside, he's much bigger than me and everything i was doing was legal but apparently he wasnt used to being bodied or boxed out. i had to apologize and claim it was cos i hadnt played in a long time, we're cool now but i kinda just have to let him go where he wants to go unimpeded. the whole group is extremely touchy with the foul calls which i dont like. ive made it a thing to not call fouls when i get fouled (unless its egregious) and they still sometimes call touch stuff and apologize...

the 1s and 2s thing... so when i play against that shooter guy i always try to tell whoever is guarding him to sell out on the 3s and let him drive, hes not fast and who cares if he shoots a pull up inside the arc. they really dont get it and give him too much room for his little side step 3, or leave him open completely. ive only guarded him a few times (hes usually matched up with another older guy) and i havent lost to him yet doing that. deny ball and stay right on him on the perimiter, let him get by if i have to but dont give up an open three.

Huh I wouldn't think a guy that age would have an issue with some physicality down low. Def see that with younger guys. Might even told the story upthread of guy who wanted to fight me for boxing him out. I wasn't even being aggressive about it, he just had no idea it was part of basketball (he was Kenyan and didn't play or watch ball growing up).

Yeah you gotta make someone like that put it in the floor! Inability to "know your personnel" is very frustrating trait in a teammate.

My daughter (fourth grade) hoops now. It’s pretty awesome. We watch college basketball together, play one on one, went to a local high school game. She’s really into it.

BTW she has the two hand push shot too - I think at that age they just kind of need to get it to the basket any way they can until they develop more strength.

over the shoulder is prob preferable, not trying helicopter parent anyones children here

My parents weren't athletes but my uncle was, and when I was a kid he got me to practice shooting by flipping a ball into the air using just wrist power while lying around watching TV or whatever. Def gave me a headstart on transition from pushing the ball towards the hoop to an actual wrist-flick high-arc shooting motion.

over the shoulder is prob preferable, not trying helicopter parent anyones children here

My ankle healing progress stalled this week. That combined with ugly looking bruising/discoloration (and girlfriend and sister on my case) prompted me to see a doc and get x-rays. Yep just a sprain. Doc ordered me some PT so at least it wasn't a total waste to see him.
My sister and cousin are visit beginning of April so if I'm smart I'll stay off the court until after they leave, rather than risk reinjury and not being able to take my guests on hikes. I can run and jump but it gets very sore quickly. I still am running the open gym in Thursdays, so it's tough watching from sideline. But things could be much worse!

ankle sprains are seriously the worst

Indeed. Kinda stoked tho to get some professional PT. Was planning to do some on my own anyway.
Going a bit stir crazy. Usually I'm hooping or hiking 6 days a week. Might go for a light stroll on a trail tomorrow though.

Chris Paul wasn't the only basketball savant making his anticipated return to action tonight. I gave it a go. Airballed 1st shot (baby hook from 8 feet. Ouch.) and followed that up with a couple turnovers. But then went on to play better than I have in months. Was even finishing at the rim which is my weakness. Tweaked the ankle slightly trying to stop and change directions on defense but it feels pretty good now.
The guys seemed genuinely stoked that I was back playing (I'd been coming to the runs anyway, since I, well, run them.) That made me feel good. Great group of guys, I genuinely like each of them (now that a couple dick heads stopped coming. I sorta steered the group to make the dickheads feel unwanted). Feel lucky to have that comraderie in runs that are open to the general public.

Keep that group together as long as possible!

I played tonight too and my Achilles flared up, last 4 weeks it’s good for about 3 games then I can barely walk.. think Its time to visit my podiatrist.

It's Sedona so the group is almost definitely not gonna stay together lol. Too much transience. Some of the guys actually come as a group from this substance abuse rehab place, so they're usually just in town for as long as their program lasts. This is like the 4th group of guys I've gone through, with just a couple other "lifers" being constants through the years. Buuuut good thing about Sedona is most people are pretty chill vibes maaaaaan.

Ugh that sucks. Couple months ago I got shoe inserts for Achilles (they just cover the back half of the shoe bed, lifting the heel up) plus these straps that go around the ankle, keeping Achilles in place. Or something. Dunno which did the trick or was combo of both but my Achilles issue pretty much resolved. But yours is just in one foot and it was a partial tear or something right? Hence podiatrist rather than Walgreens

yeah its the same one i tore a while back. i think i need to see the doc just to make sure its stable enough and then get some prescribed PT. plus maybe ill try one of those inserts, got a link to the one you use?

“You’re telling me that in pickup basketball there is a peaceful transition of power??” 😂 pic.twitter.com/1bO9KOgm0D

— Patrick Breen 🌵 (@pjbreenphoto) June 27, 2022

its an amazing system

it's all fine until someone calls a charge

everywhere ive played if that happens everyone just laughs.. like nah

lol, it is pretty amazing. In fact, when I was playing a lot, sometimes I'd wind up way outclassed and people were generally pretty cool about it and humored me. Maybe that wouldn't fly on every court, but the Y and the outdoor courts where I played had some pretty good ballers and no one really minded if I ran with them (or if they did they kept it quiet lol).

haha just realized I responded to six month old comments.

I actually revived this thread because I need to vent somewhere about my daughter's 5th grade bball team which is losing every game badly. It's partly that my town has that kind of artsy/not very jock vibe, partly that a lot of them aren't very experienced, partly that some of the best players are on the CYO team instead of ours, and tbh partly that I think the coaching kind of sucks (but it's pretty hard to complain about a couple of volunteer dads). They keep trying to teach them these fairly elaborate (for 5th grade) screen plays, but meanwhile they can barely shoot layups, some of the girls can't really handle the ball without it getting stolen, the passes get picked off constantly, there isn't consistent hands up defense, like just very basic shit they obviously need to work on before setting screens. Like even when they occasionally set a screen successfully, nothing happens because the girls don't know how to drive to the hoop.

Also my wonderful daughter is just not very confident on the court, which I feel bad about because she's actually reasonably skilled - she shoots and handles better than at least half her teammates, and she's tall. But in game she's still kinda afraid to get the ball in her hands. Gets hard to watch, but I'm just trying to be patient and encouraging. We started watching NBA together a little, which is fun and maybe gives her a little more feel for the game.

the quiddities and agonies of suburban sports parents

feeling old as fuck that your daughter (who i never met) is now in fifth grade and playing basketball and i am still out late at the club

do fifth-grade hoops teams run plays or anything? or are they running around like six-year-olds playing soccer?

kinda worry that kids of that age are maybe too young and will therefore start hating it because of how hard it is?

but! my main takeaway from high school hoops was that if someone who can dribble the ball sprints straight at you, you'll get out of the way.

anyway totally rooting for manalivette and looking forward to her being fast and breaking defenses

They sort of run plays. The level of the teams and players is really widely varied in their league. The team they played tonight was legit impressive.

My daughter's team has a few plays they run, but they don't seem very effective to me - I can see how it would take time for them to pay off, but as noted, the problem I see over and over again is that the basics aren't there yet, so even when the play works, no one can take advantage of it. But they're definitely beyond just running around like six year olds chasing a ball.

Weirdly, manalivette does have a good fastbreak when she gets past her anxiety - I've seen her pull it off really well a few times, just grab the re and go coast to coast - she's both big and reasonably fast and handles pretty well so the few times she's done it she's hard to stop. In fact I haven't seen other players on her team just go straight down the middle the way she does, most of them tend to veer off to the side.

The coach is like way overcoaching them though I think. And also they, and especially she, tend to take stuff a little too literally and try a little too hard to do exactly what they're supposed to do. Like today she told me the coach told her her main job is to get rebounds, not shoot. And I was like I'm pretty sure the coach doesn't want you to not try to shoot if you have an open shot.

i agree that 5th grade probably a little early for plays, PNRs and what have you

boxing out, layups and basic spacing probably better to nail first

my 14 yo son is on a very good team that plays against other very good teams and they have plays they run but more often it’s just improvisation and reads. he’s actually a little annoyed at his coach who wants them to do way more structured plays and it’s very tough to pull off and the coach yells at them when they fuck it up and in general they are not playing with “joy”

my 11 yo is in i guess a comparable situation to yours man alive and they do have the concept of picks but they never actually execute them in games.. it’ll come eventually i guess. for now what i’m struck by is how slow offenses are at making decisions, how badly they telegraph their passes. everyone just gets stuck, like triple teamed, lobs a pass, gets it stolen, rinse and repeat. spacing still a big issue.

lol yeah, that's a pretty perfect description of their team for the most part. Their spacing isn't bad actually bc the coach constantly reminds them about it, but they don't really know what to do with the spacing. In the game I watched yesterday, every back court player kept driving around the outside to the right when they had the ball instead of driving toward the hoop.

Manalivette also clearly has a lot of anxiety about messing up in the game and maybe a little of an attitude of "it's better if I don't get the ball" to shake off. Not really sure what, if anything, I can do about that - whatever approach I take to talking with her about it seems to fail, soft, firm, positive, constructive criticism, doesn't matter much. I want her to make the connection that she has a team to help and every time she's on the court she should be trying to help the team, whether it's spacing, rebounding, shooting, passing, whatever the team needs. I guess practice and experience mean more than anything else.

kids just need to learn to shoot threes, then after that dunking

Watching the pickup game at my gym while working out, think I’ve seen 15 missed threes in a row. Steph really ruined pickup ball.

I don't think I saw a single three sink. And a skilled and athletic bunch of ballers too.

a couple years ago all those guys would have been bricking from 20 feet

nah threes have been popular in pickup since they painted the line