Van Halen!

I get a kick out of Buckingham's observations on EVH.

Well, I’ll tell you I am certainly a fan of Eddie Van Halen. He’s extraordinary, there’s just no doubt about it. What I think he had a bit of a problem with was making what he did work in the context of the band he was in. It’s hard to work (shredding) into the fabric of a song all the time, so I think in a way what he did might have worked even better in a slightly more sophisticated format. Maybe a fusion thing like John McLaughlin or Larry Coryell, where his skill was brought to bear with other people who could play against it more. In many ways, it always seemed like he was forced to play on top of whatever Van Halen recorded.

"I've always believed that you play to highlight the song, not to highlight the player," Buckingham says modestly. "The song is all that matters. There are two ways you can choose to go: You can try to be someone like Eddie Van Halen, who is a great guitar player, a virtuoso. Yet he doesn't make good records because what he plays is totally lost in the context of his band's music.

There was an interview someone posted a few years ago here where EVH basically said he stopped listening to almost any music other than his own in the last 20 years

Heard the same about Prince.

xpost It's a digression, but I don't know about that. There are a few dudes who played in Zappa's band who famously couldn't read music or not well but did the best they could, which was still pretty great, like I want to say a freak like Bozzio. Anyway, I guess my broader point is that Adrian Belew sounds like no one else and plays like no one else, and even when he's playing in other people's projects he is doing his expected idiosyncratic Belew stuff, and otherwise (in Talking Heads and Bowie) often with another guitarist handling the "normal" stuff. Belew is not someone I would just drop into any band, any band he is in has to make room for his presence, because he really doesn't do anything other than that. I've mentioned before some (filmed) interview with Belew where the interviewer keeps pressing him on his influences, and eventually pries out Hendrix (which is who Fripp typically cites as well). And then the interviewer, as I remember it, keeps trying to get an example of how Hendrix influenced Belew's playing, and eventually, with incredible reluctance, Belew plays a quick Hendrix lick, and I remember thinking, huh, that might be the only time I've heard him play anything other than his own stuff. I don't like Zappa, but I could have sworn I've seen a clip or two of Belew in his band (wearing a dress?) and it definitely seemed like Belew still kinda being Belew.

At the other extreme, and speaking of Zappa, the rhetorical question I've always had about stunt guitarists like Steve Vai is whether he is even capable of playing dumb, or if he is compelled to make it fancy. I dunno, it doesn't ultimately matter, because you don't go to Vai for something anyone can do. One of the reasons Paul Gilbert seems like such a cool dude to me is that he afaict has no problem playing just whatever, even simple stuff, free from flash, just for the fun of it.

I've mentioned my Van Halen conspiracy theory before. "Diver Down" is without a doubt the DLR-era's nadir, with the best stuff being covers (and those not being particularly good, imo). The band seemed kind of worn out, if not washed up. And then what comes next? Bam, a perfect pop juggernaut with lots of hits. And yet "I'll Wait" is conspicuous for its high-profile co-writer, Michael McDonald, who did not get credited on the first printing of the album but whose name was added back in for future pressings. So my (totally otherwise unfounded) conspiracy theory is that the band had some other ghost writers as well, a (baseless) theory borne out by Eddie kicking out DLR, struggling to come up with new stuff and ultimately bringing in Hagar (according to Hagar) for his songwriting abilities as well as his pipes.

xxpost lol I recently heard a podcast that included an interview with Susan Rogers, and she said once Prince was at the piano playing this melody, and he turned to her and said something like "this is really good, did I write that?"

I recall a similar story about Gram Parsons in that Stanley Booth book about The Rolling Stones.

Thanks for the background Musician info, veronica moser.

Regarding the "Eddie couldn't play with x or with y" discussion, it mostly reminds me of Ginger Baker talking about how Keith Moon "wasn't trained," and "couldn't play with a big band." Both of those things are more-or-less true, and yet Keith Moon changed the role of the instrument in a way that would never have occurred to Ginger. Like comparing Eddie to Albert Lee: for all intents and purposes, the approaches were so different that they may as well have been playing different instruments.

Re: Diver Down & 1984--The way it's been told is that Diver Down came out sounding worn out was the band was worn out. They'd just come off a tour and wanted a break, but decided to put out a cover version single to keep their name out there. They settled on "Oh, Pretty Woman" after Eddie 'couldn't find a way into' "Dancing In The Street" (obviously he did later). They cut it, presented it to Warner, who demanded a whole album, possibly full of other hit covers. The band scrambled, and EVH in particular was not going to be put in that position again, and took total control of their next project.

I always wonder what, if any, influence Eliminator had over 1984. Once again, you've got this '70s band that you didn't necessarily associate keyboards with (even though that had utilized them before) going in on synths and striking Pop Gold with some questionable authorship issues arising too.

I'm nothing close to the world's #1 EVH fan, but I was thinking about how the two things I love that characterize his playing are exuberance and a sense of magic, the latter being creating effects with the guitar that render what's being played go beyond the notes and rhythms and dynamics to form something that is almost incomprehensible or impossible to break down.

(ugh garbled sentence but hopefully my meaning comes across)

I love this clip. Sure the joke is that music 30 years later sounded different, but what makes it work is that Eddie still sounded like science fiction in the 1980s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMPM0-k40G8

xp Did they not tour for Diver Down? It's definitely not easy to release 5 albums in 5 years in a heavy touring band, and it feels very "contractual obligation," but they made the most of it. "Intruder" and "Little Guitars" are cool. I didn't know "Where Have All The Good Times Gone" was a cover until a while afterwards.

I didn't like "I'll Wait" or "Why Can't This Be Love" until the past decade or so, probably not long after I grew more appreciation for In Through The Out Door and "All My Love" specifically.

“Why Cant this be Love” & ”Dreams” are about the only Hagar era songs I genuinely like & enjoy

I like "When It's Love" and a couple of others from "OU812." I heard "Poundcake" on the radio the other day, and while it's only an OK song Sammy really does sing the hell out of it. I've probably posted it before, but here's a great clip of Van Hagar doing a seemingly impromptu "Won't Get Fooled Again" in the studio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYUKtW8ayhA

XPS They ended up touring fairly extensively behind Diver Down: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_Your_Sheep_Tour

According to that setlist info, they even previewed some 1984 album tracks during those shows.

"Dancing in the Street" is one of my favorite covers.

I always liked Alex, and he acquits himself well here. He's obviously studied Moon very, very closely; some of these fills are verbatim from the record. And Hagar is the only singer I can think of off the top of my head who I can say "yep, he sounds like Roger Daltrey."

xxp

slight xp I like how you're just going to casually link that tour there without noting its amazing name.

I noted it over in the Husker Du thread ;-)

Amazing.

I like "When It's Love" and a couple of others from "OU812."

OU812 was one of the first CDs I got back in 1988 (not my first VH album, I'll note) and I ended up playing it often then -- but aside from the singles I really couldn't tell you anything about it now. (It's a small thing but that sudden harmony break that recurs on "Mine All Mine" counts as another reason why they could still work so well even in the later years.)

This is all that matters. Carlos Santana and Derek Bailey: both brilliant guitarists. Would I want to hear them playing "together"? Fuck no.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 7 October 2020 bookmarkflaglink

I would.

― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 7 October 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Put me down too.

Loved when Elvis Costello reunited with the Attractions and called it the "Lock Up Your Mothers" tour.

I bet Carlos Santana and Derek Bailey playing together would sound exactly how you would imagine: both of them in a room, playing, maybe literally together but likely not ... together.

according to that RS story linked somewhere, while the rest of the band were doing, um, other things on tour, EVH supposedly was always in a closet playing guitar. and i can't imagine it took DLR a ton of time to write the lyrics, so maybe they didn't need the time off and diver down was just naturally weak

So much good stuff floating around out there, like this picture of Dave and Eddie in Chicago on the eve of their 1978 tour:

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121004626_10222390988417218_7364499100505705514_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ZDSfkm-SbXcAX9uv2kk&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=8296e6a78e87433942bcfdc6974049af&oe=5FA43188

Oh yeah unlikely together but I read that posts and saw some tasty never-to-be possibilities xp

I have always just written off Van Halen as some highly technical session guy, with that keyboard solo in Jump supplying the only seed of doubt that there might be more going on! Will listen to that first alb.

Steve Albini's 1979 review for the school paper:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjrWDb_UYAAX3hs?format=jpg&name=large

Dateline 1978: #VanHalen breaks into Toei Studios in Japan, parties with actor Bunta Sugawara, and highjacks the deco truck from the Truck Yaro movie series #菅原文太 pic.twitter.com/LRYGddxe2v

— TokyoScope (@tokyo_scope) December 13, 2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Halen#1972%E2%80%931977:_Formation_and_early_history

Had no prior idea about their early name history: The Broken Combs --> Genesis --> learning that Genesis was already taken --> Mammoth --> Van Halen --> Gene Simmons wants to change their name to Daddy Longlegs (what a fucking asshole) --> Van Halen

from time to time, I've tried to find a list of every cover tune they ever done in the club days, to no avail… again, Greg Renoff's book Van Halen rising, maybe the best book ever written on the band, mentions a lot of the repertoire and delves into Eddie's scholarship re: chops shit and hard rock… there is no question, for instance, that all four, including Roth, would have heard Montrose and said "fuck yeah, that's what we should do…" he was really into Tommy Bolin, Jan Akkerman, Holdsworth… he talks in one of the interviews with Steven rosen how much he likes Tim Bogert. But it seems that once he became the top guy, he stopped taking in new influences. Again, he liked Gabriel's So and evidently took no new information in again.

And you guys don't seem to be with me on this, but apart from sessions here and there and some pick up bands (I can't help but get a kick out of that shaffer super group JiC found), I do think it's a shame that it had to be the band with his brother and his son or nothing for him. He needed a Hagar or a Roth to do that band, but he couldn't stand them after a while, insisted on controlling everything to his eventual detriment, and then stopped doing anything creatively and nearly destroyed himself. Wouldn't this suggest that he could try another project? Play in a different context, stretch himself?

I heard from the guitar mag poobah earlier today, and he said that EVH wanted the prestige and gravitas that he perceived Clapton bearing, and that he considered the hard rock/pop metal domain which he was the unquestioned prime mover to be lackluster…like, he looms large next to Poison, G&R and the Sunset strip milieu, but he's a small fry next to what ILMniks consider the Asshole in Armani… but on the other hand, do we want EVH to walk around thinking, "goddamn right, I'm like Charlie Parker and Art Tatum."

I like a lot of the Sammy material they're playing on the EVH tribute channel on Sirius…and I like the Different Truth shit I'm hearing simply because he went away for so long it's almost shocking to hear him…

He may have Wolfgang's guest at this Tool show last year.

A guy asked my dad if he could take a picture of him with the stage behind him, having no idea who he just asked, and that was my favorite moment from the @Tool show last night. pic.twitter.com/tA1lywM0yf

— Wolf Van Halen (@WolfVanHalen) October 22, 2019

it really is remarkable that Roth and EVH could stand to spend years in each other's presence, in light of the below… also Al, although it is well known that Al and Roth were very close in the early 80s, both were voluble party monsters…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKo5NjoKECE&t=191s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKo5NjoKECE&t=191s

sorry about that!

Read an itw ca. Ou812 where he mentioned digging thomas dolby's 'aliens ate my buick', for one.

Weren't they called Rat Salade at one point. Or at least EVH wtd to call the band Rat Salade but DLR wisely nixed the idea.

Thought it fairly well documented that wb or whoever milked the band for as many tours and albums as they could regardless what state they were in, and this contributed to their implosion... For example the balance tour with Alex in a neck brace

Hurts my head a little to think how, to achieve this really extrovert sound, he must have in actuality been the nerdiest indoor kid ever at one time. Don't begrudge him the relief withdrawing into himself tbh.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/b1/0e/beb10e055ae4e31091aa01e21f9d08e0.png

Interview up with Gary Cherone, good read. If anything he seemed to have moved on to a little later Peter Gabriel:

What music would you agree on?

Eddie didn’t listen to a lot of outside music because he was always creating it. The one record that he did listen to was Peter Gabriel’s Us. I think “Once” was an indirect influence of that. It just felt like something different than his usual stuff. That’s the only thing I can connect it to — something Gabriel did, or Bowie would do. I think “Once” holds up well.

Somewhere on youtube there's an audio itw where he plays clapton's "crossroads" solo down the phone, apparently for the first time in years, and absolutely nails it, the phrasing and everything.

It's intereristing b/c iirc Clapton has said they were really out of time, couldn't hear each other very well when they tracked that, and this resulted quite inadvertently in the solo having a feel like it's careening out of control.

Makes sense that Eddie studied this very closely, deliberately emulated the chaos and applied that to his own playing in a very controlled way.

Lol @ moved on to a little later peter gabriel

Townshend pays tribute: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/pete-townshend-eddie-van-halen-tribute-1071811/

“As he got older he became more generous and amusing and self-effacing about his enormous gifts. He shared so many tricks through guitar workshops, online and on TV shows. Immense talent. The Great American Guitar Player. I was hoping he might be President one day,”

Btw I think the lesson to be learned by the strictly academic exercise of rating him as a guitarist is that however technical or talented he was, he was unquestionably the second (and perhaps last) most influential rock guitarist of all time, which really shows how little session-chops music-theory know-how ultimately matters. I've always wondered, when those Top 50 Influential Guitarists sorts of lists come out, if Steve Howe looks over the rankings, spies someone like Johnny Ramone, gives him a listen and just ... can't ... get it.

It can matter if you want to do a lot of things!: be a teacher, play regular session gigs, play weddings and events, write on spec, ... If you're a genius and you want to write "Eruption", not so much.

i love those 78 tour photos so much

eruption --> you really got me and intruder --> (oh) pretty woman are just killer segues

Yeah, that former one is legendary. Must have sounded wild in 1978.

Steve Howe loves the Libertines and Babyshambles, apparently (not sure I've heard either): http://bigtakeover.com/interviews/steve-howe-of-yes-finds-the-edge

Now picturing Steve Howe bobbing his head to the sounds of ‘Fuck Forever’.

1978 promo tour for first single “You Really Got Me” Detroit MI - photos by Richard Upper

http://www.rockandrollgallery.com/prints/VH-RU-001.jpg

http://www.rockandrollgallery.com/prints/VH-RU-002.jpg

http://www.rockandrollgallery.com/prints/VH-RU-003.jpg

http://www.rockandrollgallery.com/prints/VH-RU-004.jpg

i love the extra shots. i mean ...how fuckin great are they <3

Steve Albini's 1979 review for the school paper:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjrWDb_UYAAX3hs?format=jpg&name=large

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 7 October 2020 20:07 (two hours ago) link

Are You With the Devil?

There's a crazy facebook thread where fans tried to locate the McDonald's in that photo and it turned out to be in a completely different city than was indicated. The photographer then chimed in and acknowledged the mistake.

oh word? what did the city end up being?