Van Halen!

Last solo apparently?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_jhOAJXWhg

I urge everyone reading this thread to listen to "How Many Say I" from VHIII.

A guy who was an editor at Guitar World for many years and who thus interviewed him many times told me last year that EVH felt insecure w/r/t to Clapton, like Clapton had the kind of respectability that he craved… that he could have felt this for an instant after like 1980 was baffling and fairly tragic…

The one story I always think about re EVH is that he gave one of his guitars to be buried with Dimebag Darrell when he was murdered.

https://www.vhnd.com/2014/12/08/dime-was-an-original-he-deserves-the-original-eddie-van-halen-on-dimebag-darrell/

I'm 48 and growing up I wasn't a massive VH fan, but from like 82-87 they were so huge and omnipresent that you just breathed them in like oxygen. So I knew their hits and probably had friends play full albums for me all the time and I saw them a ton on MTV. For the longest time, I only had their first album and at some point when my tastes turned to alternative/indie/etc. music and VH became a bit of a joke, I stopped paying attention. Then about 10-15 years ago I started going back to some "classic rock" type music I had left behind and I got back into VH, big time.

I would put them in a rare grouping of maybe 3 other bands ever (the Beach Boys voices and I can't think of any others right now) where their pure sound is so distinctive and defining. One note and you instantly know who they were and are living in their sonic world for 5 or 30 minutes. That beefy but bouncy rhythm section and overdriven, juicy, luscious, creamy guitar is just pure joy and fun for me. Even their throwaway tracks, and they have a fair number through even their early albums, sound so good they breeze by and you can forgive their laziness and, like, party on. That's why even not being from SoCal I totally identify with Ned's post at the top of the thread and his tweets after learning the news - they ARE sunny California to me.

true dat… VH is the late 70s/early 80s SoCal of halter tops, keggers, ludes and Fast Times as Beach Boys are to the early 60s…

They also rarely confused gross with fun. They're generally not that macho and default silly over sexist (which is probably a credit to DLR, ultimately). Though of course sexism is there too, in spades, but it's nothing compared to, say, AC/DC or, later, all the hair metal bands they partly helped spawn.

Not to get back to this "jamming" goofiness - we're just jamming here - but that's really just a dumb way of saying how well someone understands their instrument to a ridiculous degree, with no judgement of talent or taste assigned. Van Halen was a different kind of player, with his parts ingeniously worked out and through-composed. That's why I brought up Lindsey Buckingham. Buckingham is similarly self-taught and doesn't know much if any musical theory, but his playing is impeccable and original. And yet still rarely if ever part of anyone else's projects but his own, because that is really not his thing. He's Lindsey fucking Buckingham and he is one of a kind, just as EVH was one of a kind on an even bigger, more influential scale. (I'd cite someone like Adrian Belew as the cultier equivalent.)

From reading Sammy's book, it sounds like Eddie's insecurities were also largely on the songwriting end of things. One reason Sammy was brought in as a replacement was supposedly because he could also play guitar and write songs, which Eddie really needed at that point. He had tons of ideas sitting around on tapes but little more than that, and needed someone else to whip them into shape (or bring in something else). And hell, it worked! Or at least it did commercially. It was somewhat telling that when they reunited with Dave for that album they were still going back once again to '70s demos for ideas. Hell, "House of Pain" on "1984" was iirc on their first demo, the one that Gene Simmons produced. None if this is bad. Songwriting is hard, and hit songwriting is even harder, and no matter where the band landed, or how Eddie was faring, he never sounded anything other than himself, which is to say, awesome.

I think it is fair to criticize EVH for being musically incurious on some level. There was an interview someone posted a few years ago here where EVH basically said he stopped listening to almost any music other than his own in the last 20 years, which seems to me different than most musicians who ime eat drink and sleep music and get really jazzed hearing others play.

I think the 2012 record is also impacted by the fact that EVH agreeing to be around DLR for extended amounts of time was a fragile thing, and the process of collaborating with him for entirely new tunes would have jeopardized the entire enterprise, and as it had in 1996 and 2001… the lyrics of those songs were likely to have been revised by Roth at that time…

Huh:

http://albumsthatshouldexist.blogspot.com/2019/12/steve-winwood-all-star-garage-band-city.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk8uCsI0FdM

during the 2012 or 2015 tour, there was an interview with Klosterman I think for Esquire where EVH sneered at DLR for his interest in EDM and current iterations of music, "three guys want to play rock music, and Roth wants to play disco," or somesuch… whenever VH did a stylistic detour, that was because of Roth, whose interest in all kinds of music (as well as omnivorous interests in all kinds of non-musical shit) is one of the best qualities in a person who for sure frequently seems to be annoying… Roth said in the 80s that the brothers were only into hard rock and super chops shit, Sabbath, Cream etc etc… when they were in the clubs playing top 40 or soul, EVH apparently hated it…

fyi per my post: "The concert itself is hosted by Paul Shaffer and features: Don Henley, Steve Winwood, Bryan Adams, Sheryl Crow, Melissa Etheridge, John Mellencamp, Eddie Van Halen, Me'shell Ndegeocello, Bobby Keys, Tony Rich, Richie Sambora, Jim Price, Narada Michael Walden, and Max Weinberg."

"Speaking of guitar soloing, one interesting thing about the main "All-Star Garage Band" show is Eddie Van Halen's guitar playing. Personally, I'm not a really big fan of the band Van Halen, although I do enjoy their well known songs. But I gather it's been very rare for Eddie Van Halen to play lead guitar outside of that band (unlike, say, Eric Clapton, who has played on zillions of other musician's projects). Yet Van Halen is all over this. He plays his easily identifiable style of soloing on a bunch of songs (unfortunately not giving guitarist Richie Sambora much of a chance to shine)."

Someone (maybe me) posted this at some point. It's a 1975 house party show that was mostly covers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gMGh0RmOxw

. Buckingham is similarly self-taught and doesn't know much if any musical theory, but his playing is impeccable and original. And yet still rarely if ever part of anyone else's projects but his own, because that is really not his thing. He's Lindsey fucking Buckingham and he is one of a kind, just as EVH was one of a kind on an even bigger, more influential scale. (I'd cite someone like Adrian Belew as the cultier equivalent.)

Belew seems v different from this, unless I'm misunderstanding? He has an original style but his career was built on playing on other people's projects. You don't play in Zappa's band and just play whatever you want. Whatever theory he might have lacked he would have surely picked up there.

veronica that might be true, but.. jump's big iconic riff is a synth, and it's EVH playing it!

and according to the wikipedia page for 'i'll wait' which i was reading the other day (see upthread where i forgot it had any guitar on it at all) - it was EVH who insisted it be on the album and DLR who didn't want it

I get a kick out of Buckingham's observations on EVH.

Well, I’ll tell you I am certainly a fan of Eddie Van Halen. He’s extraordinary, there’s just no doubt about it. What I think he had a bit of a problem with was making what he did work in the context of the band he was in. It’s hard to work (shredding) into the fabric of a song all the time, so I think in a way what he did might have worked even better in a slightly more sophisticated format. Maybe a fusion thing like John McLaughlin or Larry Coryell, where his skill was brought to bear with other people who could play against it more. In many ways, it always seemed like he was forced to play on top of whatever Van Halen recorded.

"I've always believed that you play to highlight the song, not to highlight the player," Buckingham says modestly. "The song is all that matters. There are two ways you can choose to go: You can try to be someone like Eddie Van Halen, who is a great guitar player, a virtuoso. Yet he doesn't make good records because what he plays is totally lost in the context of his band's music.

There was an interview someone posted a few years ago here where EVH basically said he stopped listening to almost any music other than his own in the last 20 years

Heard the same about Prince.

xpost It's a digression, but I don't know about that. There are a few dudes who played in Zappa's band who famously couldn't read music or not well but did the best they could, which was still pretty great, like I want to say a freak like Bozzio. Anyway, I guess my broader point is that Adrian Belew sounds like no one else and plays like no one else, and even when he's playing in other people's projects he is doing his expected idiosyncratic Belew stuff, and otherwise (in Talking Heads and Bowie) often with another guitarist handling the "normal" stuff. Belew is not someone I would just drop into any band, any band he is in has to make room for his presence, because he really doesn't do anything other than that. I've mentioned before some (filmed) interview with Belew where the interviewer keeps pressing him on his influences, and eventually pries out Hendrix (which is who Fripp typically cites as well). And then the interviewer, as I remember it, keeps trying to get an example of how Hendrix influenced Belew's playing, and eventually, with incredible reluctance, Belew plays a quick Hendrix lick, and I remember thinking, huh, that might be the only time I've heard him play anything other than his own stuff. I don't like Zappa, but I could have sworn I've seen a clip or two of Belew in his band (wearing a dress?) and it definitely seemed like Belew still kinda being Belew.

At the other extreme, and speaking of Zappa, the rhetorical question I've always had about stunt guitarists like Steve Vai is whether he is even capable of playing dumb, or if he is compelled to make it fancy. I dunno, it doesn't ultimately matter, because you don't go to Vai for something anyone can do. One of the reasons Paul Gilbert seems like such a cool dude to me is that he afaict has no problem playing just whatever, even simple stuff, free from flash, just for the fun of it.

I've mentioned my Van Halen conspiracy theory before. "Diver Down" is without a doubt the DLR-era's nadir, with the best stuff being covers (and those not being particularly good, imo). The band seemed kind of worn out, if not washed up. And then what comes next? Bam, a perfect pop juggernaut with lots of hits. And yet "I'll Wait" is conspicuous for its high-profile co-writer, Michael McDonald, who did not get credited on the first printing of the album but whose name was added back in for future pressings. So my (totally otherwise unfounded) conspiracy theory is that the band had some other ghost writers as well, a (baseless) theory borne out by Eddie kicking out DLR, struggling to come up with new stuff and ultimately bringing in Hagar (according to Hagar) for his songwriting abilities as well as his pipes.

xxpost lol I recently heard a podcast that included an interview with Susan Rogers, and she said once Prince was at the piano playing this melody, and he turned to her and said something like "this is really good, did I write that?"

I recall a similar story about Gram Parsons in that Stanley Booth book about The Rolling Stones.

Thanks for the background Musician info, veronica moser.

Regarding the "Eddie couldn't play with x or with y" discussion, it mostly reminds me of Ginger Baker talking about how Keith Moon "wasn't trained," and "couldn't play with a big band." Both of those things are more-or-less true, and yet Keith Moon changed the role of the instrument in a way that would never have occurred to Ginger. Like comparing Eddie to Albert Lee: for all intents and purposes, the approaches were so different that they may as well have been playing different instruments.

Re: Diver Down & 1984--The way it's been told is that Diver Down came out sounding worn out was the band was worn out. They'd just come off a tour and wanted a break, but decided to put out a cover version single to keep their name out there. They settled on "Oh, Pretty Woman" after Eddie 'couldn't find a way into' "Dancing In The Street" (obviously he did later). They cut it, presented it to Warner, who demanded a whole album, possibly full of other hit covers. The band scrambled, and EVH in particular was not going to be put in that position again, and took total control of their next project.

I always wonder what, if any, influence Eliminator had over 1984. Once again, you've got this '70s band that you didn't necessarily associate keyboards with (even though that had utilized them before) going in on synths and striking Pop Gold with some questionable authorship issues arising too.

I'm nothing close to the world's #1 EVH fan, but I was thinking about how the two things I love that characterize his playing are exuberance and a sense of magic, the latter being creating effects with the guitar that render what's being played go beyond the notes and rhythms and dynamics to form something that is almost incomprehensible or impossible to break down.

(ugh garbled sentence but hopefully my meaning comes across)

I love this clip. Sure the joke is that music 30 years later sounded different, but what makes it work is that Eddie still sounded like science fiction in the 1980s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMPM0-k40G8

xp Did they not tour for Diver Down? It's definitely not easy to release 5 albums in 5 years in a heavy touring band, and it feels very "contractual obligation," but they made the most of it. "Intruder" and "Little Guitars" are cool. I didn't know "Where Have All The Good Times Gone" was a cover until a while afterwards.

I didn't like "I'll Wait" or "Why Can't This Be Love" until the past decade or so, probably not long after I grew more appreciation for In Through The Out Door and "All My Love" specifically.

“Why Cant this be Love” & ”Dreams” are about the only Hagar era songs I genuinely like & enjoy

I like "When It's Love" and a couple of others from "OU812." I heard "Poundcake" on the radio the other day, and while it's only an OK song Sammy really does sing the hell out of it. I've probably posted it before, but here's a great clip of Van Hagar doing a seemingly impromptu "Won't Get Fooled Again" in the studio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYUKtW8ayhA

XPS They ended up touring fairly extensively behind Diver Down: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_Your_Sheep_Tour

According to that setlist info, they even previewed some 1984 album tracks during those shows.

"Dancing in the Street" is one of my favorite covers.

I always liked Alex, and he acquits himself well here. He's obviously studied Moon very, very closely; some of these fills are verbatim from the record. And Hagar is the only singer I can think of off the top of my head who I can say "yep, he sounds like Roger Daltrey."

xxp

slight xp I like how you're just going to casually link that tour there without noting its amazing name.

I noted it over in the Husker Du thread ;-)

Amazing.

I like "When It's Love" and a couple of others from "OU812."

OU812 was one of the first CDs I got back in 1988 (not my first VH album, I'll note) and I ended up playing it often then -- but aside from the singles I really couldn't tell you anything about it now. (It's a small thing but that sudden harmony break that recurs on "Mine All Mine" counts as another reason why they could still work so well even in the later years.)

This is all that matters. Carlos Santana and Derek Bailey: both brilliant guitarists. Would I want to hear them playing "together"? Fuck no.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 7 October 2020 bookmarkflaglink

I would.

― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 7 October 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Put me down too.

Loved when Elvis Costello reunited with the Attractions and called it the "Lock Up Your Mothers" tour.

I bet Carlos Santana and Derek Bailey playing together would sound exactly how you would imagine: both of them in a room, playing, maybe literally together but likely not ... together.

according to that RS story linked somewhere, while the rest of the band were doing, um, other things on tour, EVH supposedly was always in a closet playing guitar. and i can't imagine it took DLR a ton of time to write the lyrics, so maybe they didn't need the time off and diver down was just naturally weak

So much good stuff floating around out there, like this picture of Dave and Eddie in Chicago on the eve of their 1978 tour:

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121004626_10222390988417218_7364499100505705514_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ZDSfkm-SbXcAX9uv2kk&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=8296e6a78e87433942bcfdc6974049af&oe=5FA43188

Oh yeah unlikely together but I read that posts and saw some tasty never-to-be possibilities xp

I have always just written off Van Halen as some highly technical session guy, with that keyboard solo in Jump supplying the only seed of doubt that there might be more going on! Will listen to that first alb.

Steve Albini's 1979 review for the school paper:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjrWDb_UYAAX3hs?format=jpg&name=large

Dateline 1978: #VanHalen breaks into Toei Studios in Japan, parties with actor Bunta Sugawara, and highjacks the deco truck from the Truck Yaro movie series #菅原文太 pic.twitter.com/LRYGddxe2v

— TokyoScope (@tokyo_scope) December 13, 2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Halen#1972%E2%80%931977:_Formation_and_early_history

Had no prior idea about their early name history: The Broken Combs --> Genesis --> learning that Genesis was already taken --> Mammoth --> Van Halen --> Gene Simmons wants to change their name to Daddy Longlegs (what a fucking asshole) --> Van Halen

from time to time, I've tried to find a list of every cover tune they ever done in the club days, to no avail… again, Greg Renoff's book Van Halen rising, maybe the best book ever written on the band, mentions a lot of the repertoire and delves into Eddie's scholarship re: chops shit and hard rock… there is no question, for instance, that all four, including Roth, would have heard Montrose and said "fuck yeah, that's what we should do…" he was really into Tommy Bolin, Jan Akkerman, Holdsworth… he talks in one of the interviews with Steven rosen how much he likes Tim Bogert. But it seems that once he became the top guy, he stopped taking in new influences. Again, he liked Gabriel's So and evidently took no new information in again.

And you guys don't seem to be with me on this, but apart from sessions here and there and some pick up bands (I can't help but get a kick out of that shaffer super group JiC found), I do think it's a shame that it had to be the band with his brother and his son or nothing for him. He needed a Hagar or a Roth to do that band, but he couldn't stand them after a while, insisted on controlling everything to his eventual detriment, and then stopped doing anything creatively and nearly destroyed himself. Wouldn't this suggest that he could try another project? Play in a different context, stretch himself?

I heard from the guitar mag poobah earlier today, and he said that EVH wanted the prestige and gravitas that he perceived Clapton bearing, and that he considered the hard rock/pop metal domain which he was the unquestioned prime mover to be lackluster…like, he looms large next to Poison, G&R and the Sunset strip milieu, but he's a small fry next to what ILMniks consider the Asshole in Armani… but on the other hand, do we want EVH to walk around thinking, "goddamn right, I'm like Charlie Parker and Art Tatum."

I like a lot of the Sammy material they're playing on the EVH tribute channel on Sirius…and I like the Different Truth shit I'm hearing simply because he went away for so long it's almost shocking to hear him…

He may have Wolfgang's guest at this Tool show last year.

A guy asked my dad if he could take a picture of him with the stage behind him, having no idea who he just asked, and that was my favorite moment from the @Tool show last night. pic.twitter.com/tA1lywM0yf

— Wolf Van Halen (@WolfVanHalen) October 22, 2019

it really is remarkable that Roth and EVH could stand to spend years in each other's presence, in light of the below… also Al, although it is well known that Al and Roth were very close in the early 80s, both were voluble party monsters…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKo5NjoKECE&t=191s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKo5NjoKECE&t=191s

sorry about that!

Read an itw ca. Ou812 where he mentioned digging thomas dolby's 'aliens ate my buick', for one.

Weren't they called Rat Salade at one point. Or at least EVH wtd to call the band Rat Salade but DLR wisely nixed the idea.

Thought it fairly well documented that wb or whoever milked the band for as many tours and albums as they could regardless what state they were in, and this contributed to their implosion... For example the balance tour with Alex in a neck brace

Hurts my head a little to think how, to achieve this really extrovert sound, he must have in actuality been the nerdiest indoor kid ever at one time. Don't begrudge him the relief withdrawing into himself tbh.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/b1/0e/beb10e055ae4e31091aa01e21f9d08e0.png