"Dumbledore is Gay" sez Rowling

if we survive the 2020 election, I confidently predict a Harry Potter TV series by 2025 that retells the original story of the books and it'll be on par with any of the recent Stars Wars nonsense in hype terms

o no

xp i've been thinking for a while that a big TV series revive will happen but probably not that soon if rowling keeps trying to make herself the face of the anti-trans movement. that would have to die down, the beasts movies would have to finish and become completely forgotten, it'd really have to play on millennial nostalgia. from what i gather from The Youths on social media, your sister's kids aren't the norm, 30-something dorks are still driving this IP train. and their kids might not latch onto it like they always dreamt they would.

it'll be Hogwarts: The New Class

if you're reading this shit and you notice it's shit, why keep reading it?

my kids demanded it. tbf even they started quailing by the last book. it took us about two months to finish it.

as i think i've said before here, she is actually really good at writing for 'easy reading' - the sentences flow really well, the dialogue works, it's always easy to keep to track of who's saying what, and every character is given just enough of a characterisation that someone reading aloud knows what sort of voice to put on. it's impressive. it was more fun to read to my kids than a wizard of earthsea, though of course earthsea is in every way a better book.

it'll be Hogwarts: The New Class

Saved by the Spell

✓

The book series's timing was absolutely perfect for my nephews (born 1993ish?). They got all the excitement of new books coming out, not knowing what was going to happen, having Quidditch-themed birthday parties, etc.

By the time my daughter (born 2007) was reading age, the books and movies had all already happened. By then it was a global industry, complete with amusement parks with themed rides. She read the books perfunctorily because everyone in her demographic had, but it never quite approached the quasi-religious state that I saw in the early oughts.

On some level, asking it to have continuity and make sense is beside the point - like, you are okay with wizards and witches and magic and reincarnation and immortality and time travel, but you're displeased with how the series handles... toilets? Or if somehow there was a slipup between west Africa and Madagascar (while talking about a minor detail of a fiction that is, at root, a voluntary leisure activity? Ok nerd.

At the same time, sure, Rowling either was lazy or became lazy. No argument there. And her utterly shit opinions now don't make anything better. At first, people understandably loved her rags-to-riches story, but she has used up that goodwill.

And, as has been pointed out upthread, she could just disappear onto a private island and go count money, letting people be happy with the pleasurable aspects of what they've already been given.

But some perverse impulse of massively famous and influential persons is to never quite be done, and to eternally wish to kick the beehive. I dunno.

like, you are okay with wizards and witches and magic and reincarnation and immortality and time travel, but you're displeased with how the series handles... toilets? Or if somehow there was a slipup between west Africa and Madagascar (while talking about a minor detail of a fiction that is, at root, a voluntary leisure activity? Ok nerd.

I really loathe this kind of argument - there's such pleasure to be had from a really well crafted, consistent and unique secondary world, whether fantasy or SF. When you read a lot of authors who put so much time and care into creating theirs, it can be fairly enraging to read one (a highly feted one at that) who can't really be arsed to do so. Sorry if that makes me a nerd.

Having said that, I did read and mostly enjoy all the Potter books for the first time as an adult, and they definitely have plenty of redeeming qualities, particularly the third one, as pointed out upthread. But she's not a serious fantasy author by any means.

Sorry, that was snarkier than I meant to sound, it's just--if you're reading this shit and you notice it's shit, why keep reading it?

― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Thursday, October 1, 2020 7:38 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Well, her world building may be shit, but JKR's prose is so elegant that it doesn't really matter.

This is a very good piece on fandom, the writer, and the last few years.

Rowling had never been a particularly controversial figure. Her books sold hundreds of millions of copies, they inspired films that brought in billions of dollars, and she used the money she made to save children from orphanages. In 2012, she gave enough to charity and paid enough in taxes to knock herself off the Forbes billionaires list. In 2020, she was tweeting links to a store that sold pins that said F*CK YOUR PRONOUNS.

i will read that gyac, but my eye keeps getting magnetically drawn to the line from PBKR in the post above that says

but JKR's prose is so elegant that it doesn't really matter.

no wish to inflame tempers or anything, but genuinely is that a joke?

(i don’t mind people’s love of HP, and frankly who cares if i did, people have got real enjoyment out of the books, but my god the writing is like telephone hold music)

I hadn’t seen that either before I came back to post but I agree entirely, I have to assume so? I will read literally any old shit but I have never thought this of her prose even at its most enjoyable.

yeah my comment was unnecessarily troll-y but i was genuinely interested if someone did find her prose elegant what it was they saw in it.

i don't find it elegant but as i've said before here it is exceptionally easy to read out loud, and you never really lose your way in all the proper nouns and potions and corridors and whatsits - which i reckon is not very easy to do on a technical level. as for characterisation.. plot.. the sense of the world.. it's risible - so my view is that the easiness with which her prose goes down is what makes it 'work' to the extent that it does

you never really lose your way in all the proper nouns

brb gonna make some “F*CK YOUR NOUNS” pins

Sorry, yes, it was a joke (part of which is it's a statement that not even HP-defenders usually make).

^^is yr DN a direct Loud Family reference btw or have you stumbled across the same pun 22 years later :P

Not familiar with the Loud Family - I've just been playing a ton of Cortex and Neil Young lately.

It's possible all my jokes/puns are 22 years late.

JKR sentences are usually ok, it's the overall pacing that blows dead bears

like, 400 pages of "OMG what's going on?!?!?!?" followed by 40 pages of "now Exposition Guy will explain everything in a tedious extended monologue."

The first three books, written before she was a superstar, are ok I guess. The last four have 200-page stretches where nothing really happens, not even character development. Order Of The Phoenix / Half Blood Prince are the worst, no idea how I got through these with the kids.

Ive re read like Robert Jordan multiple times so let me not serve as someone with #notions but no, even on a sentence level rowling is a poor writer id have said

yes her dialogue writing is fucking irritating as shit. I read all of these books and enjoyed them to varying degrees but I've said many times before her reliance on a certain type of speech patterns makes me insane. "it's xxxx, isn't it?" each character says something like that three times a chapter.

also I know the british overuse the word 'brilliant' but I'd be interested in knowing exactly how many times things are described with that word in her books. My guess is four hundred million.

in the UK we call a hundred million a "brillion"

Ha

In the UK, they say "Bra"

and "ooh ah cantona"

worst pacing/edit remains Goblet of Fire for opening, with 200 pages hanging around at the world quidditch finals before fucking anything happens whatsoever. but i remember it fondly, as i was working in a bookstore at the time, and dressed up as Harry for the midnight unveiling of pre-sale copies... it made the local paper!

i was also working in a bookstore when goblet of fire came out (and share your view of its pacing). i did not dress up, having had to dress up as a christmas elf when i worked in woolworths left me traumatised.

I got a big emotional reaction over the Boyhood scene where they're in a lineup for something and it turns out to be a new harry potter book. Massive anticipation over a book launch is something that doesn't happen often.

wow more like gobshite of dire

xp

I was working in a call centre on the publicity campaign for the Hogwarts express

...when I met you

Ha

quidditch is such a dumb sport

quidditch analytics teams just like "turn all your players into seekers and get the fuckin golden snitch"

https://www.usquidditch.org/about/rules/

M@tt otm

m bison brings analytics to quidditch #trusttheprocess

that aggravated me so much when I read it!

I suppose a person who doesn't watch sorts sports inventing a sport wasn't going to go well

"how can I make running around a soccer field feel more like Settlers of Cataan? WAIT I'VE GOT IT"

Quiddich is one of many examples of her refusing to involve anyone (in this case someone who has ever watched any sport) in her research and worldbuilding.

We tried to do Quiddich (as described in those rules) at a summer school once, opinions varied as to whether it was awful or just meh.

Jesus kids are jaded these days, we were lucky to get a broomstick amongst four at christmas in our house in the 80s

i will read all the HP books through twice to get sight of a photo of fizzles dressed as an elf

elfie

xp see I felt bad for him reading this cos I always think that’s cruel but I’d love to see you rageblogging the series

I'm reading the whole series for the first time, aloud to my 6 year old. Just finished Goblet of Fire. Yes, those first 200 pages were an unbearable slog. It seems like Rowling found it important/fun to create analogues in the HP/wizarding world for literally anything she could think of, like going on an overnight excursion to a massive soccer/football match. But for those of us who don't share those particular cultural and personal touchstones (I'm American), those are the moments when the books are weakest. Those World Quidditch Finals are like the macrocosm of every time pages are wasted on some whimsical aspect or ritual of Hogwarts that only exists to be an analogue to some arcane detail about the stereotypical British boarding school.

everyone otm upthread about her repetitive, awful prose. That said, I am enjoying the storytelling. And I think Tracer makes a good point about the technical skill required to build such a dense world and not have it be disorienting and overbearing. It would just be nice if the dialogue and relationships between characters resembled the complexity of actual humans.

the thing is, she could have just had them playing cricket and the overall effect would have been the same

The worst book (& film) is probably Order of The Phoenix - it's 800 pages of absolutely fuck all happening - even the ending does not advance the story one bit. The only good bit is the introduction of Umbrige, she is a well thought-through villain, though I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of people found her cruelty unbearable to read about.

xp She'd never manage to put the spin on it douglas adams did

Order of the Phoenix was the movie that made me go "you know what, fuck all of this"