no boys allowed in the room!!!!

I mean for SURE the complaining gender gap is real.

Also, in a related way, there are people who are very comfortable asking for whatever they think they can get until the other party says "no," and there are people who are extremely reluctant to ask for things in case the answer is "no" and it inconveniences or distresses the other party. I think of the former as "assholes" but the former thing of the latter as "passive aggressive," or so I've been told. :DDD

If the previous guest had left a review saying there was no wifi and the washer didn't work, would you have stayed there?

No, I absolutely wouldn't!

And this is what is grinding my gears about this specific instance, now that I think about it more carefully - that after I booked it, the host contacted me to say that the current guest was being a PITA because the television wasn't working. And he said, if that was a problem, I should just cancel, no charge, and find somewhere else? And I wrote back and said, well, I don't really watch television so that wouldn't be a problem, but I do need internet - was there WiFi? And he wrote back to assure me that yes, there was WiFi, everything would be fine!

And I got there, and obviously everything was NOT fine, and *now*, I'm wondering - like, did I end up trying really hard to be a GOOD guest, and not complain or be a PITA, because I didn't want to be like his previous whiney guest (who it turned out, actually had a point to his whining, I doubt it was just the television that wasn't working!)

Like, that goes along with your point about ask/guess cultures. And sometimes you can try so hard not to inconvenience the other party that you end up inconveniencing yourself, and feel put out about it. Or so *I've* been told. ;)

Anyway, I should stop worrying about this AirBNB thing, like I'm sure he hasn't given it a second thought, and anyway, Scotland was great, the Highlands are super pretty and I did have an amazing view, with my great-great-great-grandfather's tombstone glowering at me across the river every morning at breakfast!

I've been reading the new Kate Manne book, _Entitled_, and it is absolutely amazing, it picks up many of the threads in Down Girl and runs with them. There's so much in here that is so relevant to so much of what has been going on... ::gestures at everything::

I really want to start a Kate Manne thread, but I think it would either be a) a ghost town because no one I ever talk to has ever actually read her or b) strong chance it would turn into a clusterfuck of feelings about ~the thread starter~ and their ~presumed opinions~ and naught to do with Kate Manne and her brilliant arguments at all. There have been so many times recent on ILX where I want to just get out a Manne book and quote her (usually any time anyone mentions the word "misogyny") ad lib, but I just think her thoughts are too important to be tarred by association with an unpopular poster.

But still, Kate Manne is brilliant, and I want everyone to read her.

I've heard of Kate Boy but not Kate Manne :)

Haha, yeah, it's funny that the person who founded Health At Every Size is called Linda Bacon, and the woman who writes most effectively and eloquently about misogyny is Kate Manne? What's the word for that, when you wonder if someone's name somehow shaped or affected their path in life?

I'm going to end up doing that thing, where instead of putting my comments on the thread(s) that inspired them, I end up putting my comments here, mostly because I don't want to deal with the resulting clusterfuck and FPs - not against what I'm saying, but because it's me saying them. But if I don't say *something* it ends up thoughtworming my head until I can't think about anything else.

Here's Manne on the differences/similarities between Sexism and Misogyny:

Misogyny should be understood primarily as the “law enforcement” branch of a patriarchal order, which has the overall function of policing and enforcing its governing norms and expectations. (...) Sexism should be understood primarily as the “justificatory” branch of a patriarchal order, which consists in ideology that has the overall function of rationalizing and justifying patriarchal social relations.

In this picture, sexism will tend to discriminate between men and women, typically by alleging sex differences beyond what is known or could be known, and sometimes counter to our best current scientific evidence. Misogyny will typically differentiate between good women and bad ones, and punishes the latter. Overall, sexism and misogyny share a common purpose — to maintain or restore a patriarchal social order. But sexism purports to merely be being reasonable; misogyny gets nasty and tries to force the issue.

This explains so many things - a) why women who are viewed as bad attract *so much more* misogyny than women who stick to the lines deemed correct or good positions for women. It's not just that they're Bad, they are ~bad while female~ so the criticism escalates and becomes more vicious because it invokes 'attacks on improper femaleness' on top of just 'criticism of doing bad things'. b) why people think it's OK or justified or even *good* that women who are Demonstrably Bad (e.g. JK Rowling, Theresa May) get so much misogyny mixed in with the criticism. And finally c) why so many women so will enthusiastically join in with Misogyny, even while they represent themselves as being against Sexism - policing the Bad Women is both a way of publicly and personally assigning themselves to the category of 'Good Woman'; and also one of the few ways that women can exercise power or control under patriarchy.

But it shows why this whole 'condoning, excusing or justifying misogyny against Demonstrably Bad Women' is such a loaded gun with two barrels. It doesn't just perform the function of putting down the Demonstrably Bad Woman. It performs the function of reinforcing that idea 'It's perfectly good and just and necessary to exercise misogyny against any woman judged and found Bad no matter whose those standards are'. It becomes OK to misogynise Any Woman You Disagree With because the standards are always double; it is always almost impossible for any woman to meet them, no matter how perfect. It is always a lose/lose proposition.

It *is* possible to criticism women without lapsing into misogyny, double standards, and the rest. But this is why so few people manage to do it. Under male supremacy, it feels *righteous* to weaponise misogyny against Bad Women, despite or because of the fact that that is literally what misogyny is intended to do - punish Bad Women and set an example for women who would like to be seen as good. Hence why it's so impossibly fraught for women facing both 'criticism and misogyny' to separate one from the other. They don't come with neat little lablels to differentiate one from the other.

Anyway, that's been my thoughtworm for the past week. But reading Kate Manne helps me manage that thoughtworm.

I think she's great and everyone should read her.

It *is* possible to criticism women without lapsing into misogyny, double standards, and the rest.

yeah, totally! It's similar to the arguments elsewhere about fat-shaming. There are so many things you can say to disparage and verbally destroy certain US government officials -- that are horrible people that deserve the rage -- without making it about their weight or other "inferior" physical traits.

And I feel like some of it is just habit, in a way, this language is used because these are words and phrases that come most quickly to mind as being "punishing language" because of the misogynistic, white supremacist, homophobic, fatphobic (etc) nature of society. Like, when a fellow driver gets annoyed that I have inconvenienced them, they will often yell "fuck you, fat bitch" at me ... are they really thinking about the specific words they will use to express their anger? I dunno, but I doubt it, I think because "fuck you, fat bitch" is a common insult, it is what comes out of their mouth in the heat of the moment. Like, part of me feels like it's not entirely an internalized anger "at women" but it's partly about some form of pattern recognition or categorization -- like "this person is bad and also a woman" therefore I will express my anger in this way, because this is how we respond to "bad + woman" --- like, some insidious horrible version of "a baby cat is a kitten, a baby dog is a puppy ..." like mnemonics for names for things of different types.

I don’t think you’d portray it in such a neutral light if you read the book. The pattern recognition *is* the thing.

She’s just done this whole chapter on the religious Right that draws parallels and makes explicit the logic of entitlements that links together both anti-abortion rhetoric AND bathroom bill style transphobia - which just made my head explode with its brilliance and clarity, and making sense of things that seemed nonsensical to me.

She’s just such an amazing thinker and writer!

oh, I am not saying that "neutrally" -- like, it probably sounds more neutral because it's text on a screen -- I guess what I was trying to say is just that there are habits of emotions and thought, and habits of language -- the words people use to express those emotional and logic patterns. Like, there are two parts to it.

And the issues of "hate speech" and policing language do play a role -- because they affect the language habits of people, but the emotional/logic parts remain the same, but the expression of the misogyny will shift.

Ah, my mistake - apologies for the misread. Thanks for explaining further, that makes more sense.

I just ordered this unusual menstrual cup to try - it’s disposable and it sits higher up than a normal cup. I’ve never bothered trying a cup before but the selling point on this one is that you can have sex while wearing it. I got a referral code that gets you $5 off if anyone else wants to try it:

https://www.talkable.com/x/P8H02X

I keep getting these ads for a product called Lume Deoderant and they are kinda icky idk, do y'all know what I'm talking about?

Is that the one that has a weird musical commercial, because if so, yes. After watching that commercial, I decided I would never purchase it.

yes, I didn't listen to the sound of it, but that's what it appeared to be.

I can think of a handful of professions where the "problems" it is claiming to solve would be useful, but like ... working in an office? At an exercise class? ... it makes me think of those artificially scented kitchen garbage bags.

it also reminds me of those poopouri ads which made me irrationally angry

like ... this is why there are HVAC systems in bathrooms!!!!!

yes very weird ad. also the woman does a fake....french? accent

Putting on deodorant on your genitals before sex seems, I don’t know, silly? A bad idea? Just wash if you’re that concerned.

haha i didn't bother to look up what this was, i thought it was armpit deodorant

harbl, that is because you are a sensible intelligent person!

i accidentally bought scented tampons once & i imagine this deodorant smells like that (i didnt use them, they were weird af)

the last thing a vag needs is artificial fragrance in the mix. so stupid.

it also reminds me of those poopouri ads which made me irrationally angry

― sarahell, Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:09 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

That stuff is great actually but not for institutional/office bathrooms, we keep it around at home for when a lot of adults are using one bathroom and no one leaves the house anymore.

the last thing a vag needs is artificial fragrance in the mix. so stupid.

― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, January 28, 2021 10:44 AM (twenty-three minutes ago)

yeah ... also I would feel very unsexy with something like that. Like I don't know a dude that's turned on by the smell of febreze ... it strikes me as a real boner-killer of an odor

not to be heterosexist ... I don't know any women that are turned on by the smell of febreze either. I certainly am not.

i am so anti-fragrance. i tried to use a dry shampoo for the first time and was so irritated by the smell i had to wash my hair anyway. to think people are fragrancing their hoo-hahs, well.................

i am mostly anti-fragrance. I like some scented soaps but not super heavy. I like stuff that smells like mint or cucumber. My hair cleaning product smell problem is always coconut. Almost everything made for my type of hair smells like coconut. I found an ok conditioner that smells like hibiscus-kinda idk but not coconut, which is good! But it isn't as good as the ones that smell like coconut. However it's winter and covid and half the time I am sitting at home wearing a knit hat so I can have less than ideally conditioned hair plus not smell like coconut.

also, when you are trying to stay mostly on the wagon, having hair that smells like a Tiki cocktail does not help.

I especially hate how the branding is very now-ish, very Instagram aesthetics, and yet it's for something SO BACKWARDS that we laugh about it in ads from the 1950s. I expect my super modern product advertising to have less retrograde politics.

oh yeah i like good-smelling soap and conditioner and stuff just not like, aggressive smells

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2013/09/Screenshot_34-500x534.png

hahahah yes!!! In the 80s too! Summer's Eve for that "not so fresh feeling"!

also just on a basic level, scented stuff for your vag is the quickest way to thrush or at least some kind of irritation

nobody wants that!

idk why these products persist in existing

I thought that lume stuff was for, like, for swampy summer butt crack - not vag?? I keep seeing their ads in YT and that’s the impression I got

i think it's for both?

It’s also for feet!

I really thought it was more widely known these days that you don’t put anything up yr vag to “deodorize” it unless you actually WANT problems in that area

I’m willing to bet that if you picked 1000 random men and a 1000 random women and scientifically performed an odor test, dicks would be the clear winner of the bad-smell award. But no one is marketing dick deodorant to men.

...yet :)

lol

https://www.hunt4freebies.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Old-Spice-Below-Deck-Powder-Spray-and-Anti-Chafe-Stick.png

hahahah the idea of someone rubbing a stick deodorant on dick and balls is just ... an odd picture to me? like, does it have instructions about whether hard or flaccid is better for application? ... it's like, there are some products meant to solve embarrassing problems that just create additional embarrassing problems

Lol I semi-retract my statement - that spray is basically the same thing as Gold Bond spray, and it’s just a pubes spray. It’s not doing anything about the actual dick problem.

I’m assuming the anti chafe stick is for the tops of men’s inner thighs where their balls rub???

what can be done about the actual dick problem, really?

Washing it properly!!!! Thankfully this is not an issue I’ve had to deal for 12 yrs but prior to that I def encountered dick that was not being washed properly.

ha it was partly a rhetorical question but yes, there are men who regularly embody "fuck washing a dick"

ugh this convo is making me feel gross

sorry ... sorry ... sorry!

fuck washing a dick

make your fuckwash known hahahaha sorrrrrrrrrrry

RE those Flex period discs I mentioned: I finally tried them this week (after 5 yrs with an iud my period has finally started waning) and I like them. I’d prefer a non disposable version since they’re expensive and a pain to dispose of. But getting one in is easier than I expected, although I find it hard to believe that it doesn’t get in the way during sex (haven’t tested that yet). The disc comes out nice and easy but def not suitable for people who aren’t comfortable using applicator-free tampons as it’s a little messy.