what poetry are you reading

https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-genius-of-the-crowd/

if that's his best, never mind the rest for sure.

<blushes with shame at user name>

Fwiw, I signed up in around 2004. I don't think I've read the miserable old bastard since. Bukowski would be good example for the 'separating art from artist' thread, albeit his art isn't really up to much. Also, fat, drunk misogynist isn't a bad catchall for a whole bunch of mid-C20 writers.

Poetry adjacent, rather than poetry but... Flatter myself that I know a bit about contemporary poetry but I had never even *heard* of Kay Ryan (apparently she was US Poet Laureate and everything) until coming across this review of her collected essays the other day https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/09/26/kay-ryan-giddy-with-thinking/

Turns out she is an absolute treat! Almost too pat to say it's like Emily Dickinson judiciously pruning Marianne Moore, but... it's true.

Also reading the e-book (much more approachable than the overwhelming 700 page doorstop incarnation) of Don Paterson's The Poem: Lyric, Sign, Metre which is more fun than I had been expecting. Have always been a fan of DP's prose but had soured on his more recent books of poetry; this makes me want to go back to them.

I've heard of Kay Ryan, never really read her. Tbh if someone is US poet laureate, it probably means I'll hate their work lol.

Tbh if someone is US poet laureate, it probably means I'll hate their work lol.

Good rule of thumb imo. See also: Canada poet laureate, UK poet laureate, etc.

Yep. I mean I love a lot of poets who've won prominent awards-- Cecily Nicholson, who won the Gov a few years back, is a great poet and a friend. But an award like that is one thing...being a poetic mouthpiece for a country is another.

B-but you don't hate xpost Natasha Trethewey, do ya?! She doesn't seem like a mouthpiece for anybody, from what I've read. May be a few dutiful bits of that somewhere, but who is gonna remember.

Not bad for something that explains itself: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57695/elegy-i-think-by-now-the-river-must-be-thick

Yeah, that poem isn't very good.

It is straightforward, memory-based narrative addressed to a dead loved one that is supposed to evoke something mysterious and ineffable, but is in fact just a bunch of lines thrown together without much intention. Just because something is true doesn't make it an interesting subject for a poem, and anyone who says different doesn't know much about poetry imho.

It's got line breaks therefore it is poetry by definition.

i never said it wasn't a poem. i said it wasn't good.

I was being sarcastic. To me, it's a classic example of 'I'm just gonna say some asinine, vaguely wistful recollected-in-tranquillity shit in prose then add some random line breaks to make it look like a poem', which is 95% of so-called contemporary poetry anyway.

I guess it matches what Ron Silliman dubbed the School of Quietude (which I don't entirely hate btw, depending on my mood and how competent the poet happens to be) back in the day.

Sorry, sometimes my sarcasmeter is a little off!

Another example of an acclaimed poet whose work is just godawful is Kaveh Akbar: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/90975/despite-my-efforts-even-my-prayers-have-turned-into-threats

That guy has a visiting professorship at an elite MFA program and is also the poetry editory for The Nation, and I'm like, "this isn't poetry, it's emotional manipulation." awful dreck.

I lol'd @ 'like a sponge / cowboy in water'.

The deliberate (I assume?) callout to William Carlos Williams doesn't help.

Right? It's obviously, like, not good.

I love a lot of what is called "movement" poetry of the 70s-90s— I think so much of it is vital, necessary, and complex work that continues to resonate with the few readers it has.

But somewhere along the line, the perennial popularity of confessional lyricism commingled with a directive sensibility that wasn't aimed at larger social problems or causes, but was inward-facing regarding problems of identity and marginalization. As a result, even many poets whose politics I share write poetry that is emotionally manipulative, "closed" poetry, that tells the reader how they're supposed to feel about it.

As for an example of "movement" poetry, I think immediately of Judy Grahn's "A Woman is Talking to Death," which should be in every anthology of contemporary American poetry, but probably won't ever be because she's a working class dyke who hates capitalism. https://poets.org/poem/woman-talking-death

It's hard to overstate my adoration for that poem— it hurts.

I need another run at that but jesus, extraordinary. Thank you for sharing.

I don’t read poetry very often but just finished Vertigo & Ghost, which I recommend, and I’ve ordered a new collection by a Canadian Instagram friend, P4ul Vermeersch, that looks really good

I like the Trethewey poem, and Trethewey in general -- I find her an interesting poet to read aloud, and surprisingly challenging to read well -- but I've already established that my tastes in poetry are quite middlebrow.

And that's fine, obviously. I should say, though, that I have read some other poems by Tretheway, and often find her work much more interesting than the poem that was posted, which was just...really middle-brow, lol.

Also many xps to Chinaski, but introducing people to that Grahn poem is something I plan on doing for the rest of my days. It's simply extraordinary, isn't it?

It really is. I've been pondering it since and there's a bunch of stuff that I need to process. And I'm already thinking about people I'm going to share it with!

t is straightforward, memory-based narrative addressed to a dead loved one that is supposed to evoke something mysterious and ineffable, but is in fact just a bunch of lines thrown together without much intention.
Yes, straightforward, memory-based narrative, chosen because I think this is basically what she always does, though more tethered to the fishin' line reportage than is strictly necessary or entirely typical---like I said, "not bad for something that explains itself, though an impulsive choice, sorry. Yes, supposed to evoke something, but not mysterious and ineffable. if only that were a little more true, and she hadn't splained while showing the playback. also "supposed" doesn't go with just a bunch of lines thrown together without much intention., unless you mean she didn't think it through, or not deeply enough. Think it's more about trusting yourself and the reader, seeing how much more you can leave out and still hit the notes,
Which reminds me, mark s has referred to the Beatles as middlebrow, which is fine, middlebrow is not the worst thing, as I'm sure you know, but nerts to those who find it such a perfect dismissal. (She's never the Beatles, but even in this verse, she's okay.)

kay ryan's my favorite poet fwiw

'I'm just gonna say some asinine, vaguely wistful recollected-in-tranquillity shit in prose then add some random line breaks to make it look like a poem', which is 95% of so-called contemporary poetry anyway. Not sure about the percentage, since I don't read that much poetry, but agree about the "tendency," which often seems dutiful, school-paper--y, but this particular poem, though I shouldn't have chosen it, is not nearly as bad as you describe it, get back Jo Jo!

probably not very much to your taste though table xp

Kay Ryan packs a lot of gnomic wit in her verse; the wit's in the enjambments. I'll take her over Ammons (whom I like, I must say).

this is probably my favorite of ryan's poems: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/40887/the-fabric-of-life

they all work this way so it's truly you either like it or dislike it on impact, even though i remember say uncle growing on me extremely as i progressed through it

"don't look back" also slaps imo https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/browse?contentId=39960

i just like that they're these compressed ideas that internally rhyme

I used to try keeping up with anglophone poetry when I was younger. Of the 'bigger' (more like mid-tier, celebrity-wise) post-1980 (ish) American poets I remember enjoying, I had a soft spot for Michael Palmer, Rosmarie & Keith Waldrop, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Clark Coolidge, Cole Swensen and… I'm forgetting lots.

i have very basic taste in poetry mostly because i don't like poems or poets v much to begin with. i dated a poet once and in briefly inhabiting that circle i discovered it was somehow worse than new york media

that grahn poem is incredible table, let me be another person to thank you for sharing it

Here's one for the art vs artists thread: I like poetry but I hate poets.

I mean, not exactly (I don't hate table, for one ;)), but you get my drift.

I'm rereading Rita Dove. What do we think of her?

Ha, well Brad, I would never date another poet. I never have, in fact, something I am rather proud of.

As far as poetry tastes in general, while I can easily categorize and place and judge other poets and poems, at the end of the day, I also know that my own preferences are usually so far outside any sort of visibility or popular attention that I find it difficult to spend too much time worrying about stuff I don't like.

That doesn't mean I don't wish the stuff I like was more popular, but I also realize that not many want to read Dorothy Lusk or Prynne or whatever.

lol i dated and then married a poet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

in spite of the steady stream of poetry books entering our apartment i haven't read much poetry at all lately, mostly occupied with novels at the moment (which is funny because a few years ago i went through a whole anti-novel thing and mostly read poetry. circle of life etc). but whenever i get back to that place i've got a pretty sizable to-read pile here (including your new one, T!)

i mean tbf i was very much in love with the poet i dated. otherwise generally recommend never dating writers

I'm rereading Rita Dove. What do we think of her?

She has only four mentions on ILX, including the two on this thread.

Rita Dove is okay. She has a sense of the line that I can get behind, even if I think some of her work falls into the 'dilatory epiphanic' mode that so annoys me.

Isn't "Dilatory Epiphanic" a Paul Simon song?

Lol

I only know Thomas and Beulah

Diane di Prima passed away today. One of the greats and one of the few left of her generation. Her kind and generous spirit will be missed.

Aimless that macniece you posted in april last year was the ticket and no mistake

yeah I remember being really struck by that one