condensed down to a recommendation for your CNN appearance later:
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:20 (three years ago) link
sorry, CNN, the $25 itself is not generous, i just mean that the game itself is very generous. like, given how much enjoyment i've already gotten out of it (even if i never play it again, starting...tomorrow), i think i would pay $140 for this game
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:21 (three years ago) link
Thanks Karl! That's definitely food for thought.
― Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:40 (three years ago) link
the downbeat atmosphere draws me in quite a bit, i love how much of the voice-acting is calm and quiet. details like that keep me interested even though i'm not great at the game, kinda like a difficult book with a really nice cover
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Saturday, 26 September 2020 19:49 (three years ago) link
had fun playing with dad in the front yard. i'm just gonna admit that i'm s spear guy. it's the only weapon that makes sense to me.
(ie, i haven't figured out how to get the same dps from anything else - the spear special is the only way i know to reliably backstab in chaotic situations.)
pierced butterfly is nice, wearing it when meeting the person who gives it to you is cool too.
― lukas, Saturday, 26 September 2020 22:15 (three years ago) link
i have a different take on what "there is no escape means" now, a much ... darker take
― lukas, Sunday, 27 September 2020 00:28 (three years ago) link
okay the fists can be cool. i shouldn't evaluate weapons after trying them only once or twice, because boons.
― lukas, Sunday, 27 September 2020 00:50 (three years ago) link
It's really annoying that bull rush can't clear the smallest barrier or gap. Am I missing something?
― lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 00:07 (three years ago) link
KM is chilling on Olympus
― lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 00:08 (three years ago) link
sorta! i have defeated it 3 times now. there is so much to say. suffice to say, the post-game is very excellent. like, i'm not sure i've ever been tempted to hang around long after beating a game, but i seriously feel like i'm just getting started. poopsocks left behind on olympus
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 03:20 (three years ago) link
only click this if you want to learn the secret name of the hydra
it rhymes with journey
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 03:33 (three years ago) link
had my first clear today but it was pretty cheesy - running in circles while my health regen'd, dropping crystals, waiting for athena's invulnerability call to charge so I could run in and do a bunch of damage.the moment when I realized this might work (reached the final guy without any DD) was one of my favorite moments playing videogames ever.
― lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 05:53 (three years ago) link
I haven't finished the second stage of the final boss yet, but I made a similar discovery about Athena's deflecting boons being the best way to neutralise the ridiculous area attacks in the fight... I wonder if there's any other way to do it for someone like me who doesn't have fast enough reflexes to dodge the attacks?
― Tuomas, Monday, 28 September 2020 11:48 (three years ago) link
I made the plunge! It's already more engaging than the other rogues I've played, definitely because of the dating sim elements, though the voice acting and writing both deserve praise as well.
I've gotten as far as Asphodel, and have beaten Meg once, using the shield, which makes me feel like Captain America.
― Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Monday, 28 September 2020 15:26 (three years ago) link
you're well on your way!
there is sooooo much to discover in the game. i read a review about being 40 hours and huge, interesting, gamechanging (potentially) systems unlocking, and that's very true. and also, the path to 40 hours is also filled with all sorts of things to find along the way.
this is a very, VERY polished game. it's obvious that they put a lot of thought into what is interesting and compelling at each stage of the game - absolute beginner, working your way up to the boss, and also what happens afterward. if anything, i am MORE compelled after beating the game than i was at the beginning, which is kind of disturbing and has seriously ruined my life the last couple weeks!
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 16:28 (three years ago) link
the music in this game is really awesome and there's the correct amount of it.
the game this reminds me of most is disgaea 1 on the ps2. in the sense that you go out and do your mission then come back to the underworld hub and chat with all your dudes. like karl said the loop is really satisfying and the characterization is done well (and there's the correct amount of it).
― adam, Monday, 28 September 2020 16:43 (three years ago) link
SHIT
DON'T READ THAT!
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 17:05 (three years ago) link
messed up the spoiler tag, getting mod assistance now, sorry
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 17:06 (three years ago) link
The difficulty hasn't bothered me so far, either! I'm not sure if it's genuinely not as hard as I feared or if it has so many other objectives that are within my grasp and thus distracting me from the difficulty.
― Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Monday, 28 September 2020 17:35 (three years ago) link
that's good!
like so many other things in this game, i think the difficulty curve is perfectly tuned. it's well-tuned for single runs because no matter how good you are, you're going to be able to clear the first few rooms (probably - i mean the one time my mom played a videogame was SMB1, and she stood perfectly still on the left side of the screen for almost the entirety of the time limit, and then when the hurry the fuck up! music started and i told her she was going to die, she ran to the right and immediately hit the very first goomba. then she got mad and said she would never play a game again, and then hasn't for the last 32+ years). most likely, you'll get a little bit further each time through, and when you die it rarely* feels like you got totally screwed, and you'll probably feel like if you tried again you'd do better.
the difficulty curve is also well-tuned on a macro scale. hard to explain without spoilers but very true, i think
* except for those fucking poisonous rats godDAMMIT
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 17:47 (three years ago) link
a few tips for the final boss:
i posted this earlier but then had to have a mod delete it because i fucked up the new spoiler formatting tags. but in short:
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 18:02 (three years ago) link
WTF IS WRONG WITH ME
whatever, no more spoiler tags for me. this is a spoiler zone. i am sorry
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 18:03 (three years ago) link
I finally did manage to beat the final boss! As I suspected, I needed Athena for that, having the deflecting dash and putting the deflecting boon on the shield's special attack. If you put some speed effect to it (from Hermes and/or from Daedalus hammer), you can just keep throwing it and it'll deflect a lot of the attacks on the way. This is especially useful against the dragon boss, as you can just stand in front of its heads and keep spamming it with the shield again and again with most of its attacks being deflected.
― Tuomas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:12 (three years ago) link
Karl's tip on how to use Athena's call seems very useful, but I didn't get it and instead finished off the final boss with Aphrodite's call. It seems to be the one call that does the most damage instantaneously, so if you other ways of deflecting the boss's damage and building up the god gauge, it works as an awesome finisher, doing hundreds of points of damage.
― Tuomas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:16 (three years ago) link
Specifically the WHAT!?
― Dan I., Monday, 28 September 2020 19:22 (three years ago) link
I can get to Dad Boss almost every time but can't beat him. Thanks though KM for saying that you can level up the Keepsakes, didn't know that. Boney's keepsake seems like the best, as far as i can tell.
― Dan I., Monday, 28 September 2020 19:23 (three years ago) link
Skelly, not boney, sorry
― Dan I., Monday, 28 September 2020 19:24 (three years ago) link
Yeah, Skelly's keepsake seems to be the best one to have, especially on the final two levels, where the bosses feel like they're almost impossible to beat without taking massive damage.
― Tuomas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:27 (three years ago) link
So my strategy has been to chose the one god's keepsake who's basic boon I really want to have for the first level, as the Furies are pretty easy to beat without dying once you've levelled up, then change for Skelly's keepsake for the other levels.
― Tuomas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:29 (three years ago) link
Thanatos keepsake is my favorite as I've mentioned - maxed it gives +2% damage for every encounter your clear without taking damage. gives an incentive to stay on your toes in otherwise relaxed encounters. I've gotten as high as +26%.
― lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:47 (three years ago) link
I guess if I ever start planning builds in advance I'll have to switch to a god's keepsake yeah. ugh.
― lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:48 (three years ago) link
seriously it's real fun to complete an insane Asphodel or Elysium encounter and unexpectedly get the +2% notification.
― lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:49 (three years ago) link
― Dan I., Monday, September 28, 2020 2:22 PM (seven minutes ago)
lol, in the chaos of trying to post that post, i also forgot to complete that thought! lol, what a fucking disaster
some of the more useful keepsakes for hades (the boss), SPECIFICALLY, are:
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 20:05 (three years ago) link
here is my ULTIMATE QUESTION for you all, the one i really wanted to know:
do you use the "you have multiple casts but you have to go pick them up after you throw them" mirror option, or the "you have 1 cast, but it autoreplenishes so you don't have to go pick it up" option?
i have to admit that once i switched to autoreplenish, i never went back. i think it probably makes sense to go chase it for other playstyles, though - for example, there's a spear Aspect that changes the special so that after you throw the spear you can sprint forward to retrieve it, rather than pulling it back to you (as default). if you were already doing that, it might make a lot of sense to aim your special in the same area as your cast, so that when you sprint toward it you also pick up your cast at the same time
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 20:10 (three years ago) link
i really need to get back to work, but one final thing i've recently realized is that there is a balancing point between the damage you deal and your HP. it's natural to be focused on conserving/regaining your HP when you're purchasing things or picking a boon. but if you're about to face dad and you can only pick one thing (or door, in the Cerberus labyrinth thing, (or item, at Charon's last shop)), it often makes more sense to pick something that gives you a boost to damage, rather than your health, because when you hit him harder, you're also taking less overall damage by the end because you can defeat him more quickly.
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 20:14 (three years ago) link
finally beat theseus and the minotaur this morning with a high-damage doom fists/athena call build that left me with 1 hit point and 0 death defiances going into the next area. lasted a little while but still lots to figure out.
the fists aspect with the scorpion get over here special is awesome
― adam, Thursday, 1 October 2020 13:12 (three years ago) link
Dear Bone Hydra,You are a butthead.
Yours,Zag
― Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Saturday, 3 October 2020 18:49 (three years ago) link
How have you been making out so far, Leee?
― idkwtf (Karl Malone), Saturday, 3 October 2020 18:51 (three years ago) link
just beat the game for the first time. adamant rail with the MIRV mod and a shitload of doom, chill on the attack, heroic athena dash, ares call. got to the last boss with 4 death defiances and just kited while spamming AOE damage. good shit. love this game.
― adam, Saturday, 3 October 2020 18:56 (three years ago) link
I just made it to Bone Hydra, and I have one last weapon to unlock. I'm also stockpiling darkness till either I have a surplus of keys to unlock more abilities or I can level up my death defiance.
Otherwise, I'm trying to collect nectar.
Is there any way to tell which boons/upgrades I haven't used yet while I'm escaping? Maybe I'm still a little too underleveled to worry about min-maxing my fated list, though.
― Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Saturday, 3 October 2020 21:21 (three years ago) link
There is a way! When you have an option for a boon that’s on the fated list, a little scroll icon will appear next to the name of it. But I’d say don’t worry too much about completing all those, because you’ll end up using them all eventually just by playing. a boon that seems really bad on one run may be essential with a different weapon
― idkwtf (Karl Malone), Saturday, 3 October 2020 21:33 (three years ago) link
got to the bull of minos for the first time on my first run with the adamant rail. seems like a much easier weapon than the others, but the fists are so fun
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
i thought adamant was overpowered the first time i used it, too, but in returning to it i've sometimes struggled!
also, the bow is by far the hardest for me! it seems really strong at the beginning but underpowered by the end. every time i make it work, it's by pairing it with a dash-strike boon and just spamming the crap out of it. granting, i do that sometimes too with other weapons, but i don't feel as forced into it as i do with the bow
― idkwtf (Karl Malone), Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:14 (three years ago) link
the aspect where the special flurry arrows all target the last-attacked enemy allows for a little more tactical thinking imo
― adam, Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:29 (three years ago) link
i only tried that aspect once, and did very poorly with it! i don't think i was being very tactful with it, though. i remember being frustrated that the arrows kept targeting enemies that were already dead, so i think i was changing targets too quickly
― idkwtf (Karl Malone), Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:33 (three years ago) link
Bow is my least favorite weapon. Feels like it takes forever to clear a room with that thing.
― circa1916, Saturday, 3 October 2020 23:07 (three years ago) link
That's my feeling too. It requires more finesse and less running around like a cat on fire.
I beat the Bone Hydra! And unlocked my first set of additional abilities! An he played around with weapon aspects! I.e. all the little unlockables are what make this game approachable.
― Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Sunday, 4 October 2020 15:56 (three years ago) link
How does Stubborn Defiance work? It sez once per chamber, but does that mean level (e.g. Tartarus) or once per room/encounter? Because functionally it seems like the latter.
― Fisherman's Worf (Leee), Sunday, 4 October 2020 18:19 (three years ago) link
stubborn defiance works once per encounter, and there's no limit to the number of times it works.
death defiance is limited (starts with 1, but you can level it up to 3 using the mirror), but heals more.
i always tend to die on the bosses, not the encounters, so i almost always go with death defiance (if you have that plus the leveled up keepsake that gives you another life, you have up to 4 revives against the final boss).
― idkwtf (Karl Malone), Sunday, 4 October 2020 19:06 (three years ago) link
prob the shield dash
like most well-made games, all the combos and weapons are pretty viable. Dead Cells was the first roguelike that I got into so I was pretty prepared for it, but I think Hades prob does the best job of any of these games in making this framework propel the story. I haven't played too many of these types of games besides hollow knight and the souls series, are there any more big ones I've missed?
― Bongo Jongus, Monday, 10 July 2023 17:18 (ten months ago) link
Yeah, shield dash was the number one essential boon for me.
― emil.y, Monday, 10 July 2023 17:54 (ten months ago) link
But you can't plan on or keep the boons, right?
Hollow Knight and Souls aren't roguelikes at all - the closest I've come to this is Inscryption, which is fantastic. But generally I prefer to find my build and cling to it until the end, so I'm still getting used to this.
― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Monday, 10 July 2023 18:01 (ten months ago) link
xpost Roguelike? Hollow Knight or Souls ain't that. Oh, wait, games where any approach is viable? Probably lots. Like Hitman, or games where you can go either stealth or aggro, say.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 10 July 2023 18:03 (ten months ago) link
No, but you can make sure you choose an Athena room if you're given the choice! Possible spoiler but there is a way to guarantee who the first god will be, but for me those calls feel like a waste and I prefer to leave it to chance.
― emil.y, Monday, 10 July 2023 18:28 (ten months ago) link
In terms of similar games, I just bought Slay the Spire in the Steam sale, and that has the same "multiple runs with many possible paths" vibe. The story is much more sparing, but I'm still pretty sucked in to the whole cyclical journey. It's also card-based combat rather than hack'n'slash, so maybe not actually all that similar aside from in my own brain?
― emil.y, Monday, 10 July 2023 18:37 (ten months ago) link
I mean, I was friends with felicity for over a year before we discovered we both were huge roguelike junkies (she: Nethack, me: ADOM).
Souls games are definitely inspired by rogue-likes insofar as they have a version of permadeath, kind of a permadeath-lite (dying before retrieving your souls/runes), and a similar feeling of “having to learn something cryptic by just attempting it over and over”…
…but I think the inspiration river flows the other way: Hades and Dead Cells are inspired heavily by Souls games. Doesn’t Dead Cells even have a “git gud” Easter egg?
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 10 July 2023 19:51 (ten months ago) link
xp Slay the Spire is fantastic though be warned, I'm something like 500hrs into it and I still find myself going back for more, though maybe it's that I'm just not very good at it!
― Critique of the Goth Programme (Neil S), Tuesday, 11 July 2023 10:46 (ten months ago) link
I can now get past the first boss consistently! But I'm getting a bit shredded in the next area, of course. Still using the shield, being able to block if necessary is just too good.
I get that it's integral to the game system to do a full run each time in order to keep acquiring stuff and strengthening your character over time, but I would still kill for a checkpoint after each main area.
― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Tuesday, 11 July 2023 15:13 (ten months ago) link
Beat the Hydra on my first try! So I've gotten through some of Elysium once, mostly thanks to some Ares boons (the ones that add doom to your special attack).
― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Friday, 14 July 2023 15:24 (nine months ago) link
Going to play this with God mode switched on tonight, have only ever managed to beat the first boss once, died instantly in the next chamber.
― bain4z, Saturday, 15 July 2023 13:29 (nine months ago) link
I really needed God mode. It helps but isn't a panacea. Just makes things a tad easier over time
― octobeard, Saturday, 15 July 2023 18:48 (nine months ago) link
OK, this game is insanely fun and addictive, and while I'm still struggling to figure out all the mechanics and approaches, all while trying to enjoy the writing and voice acting, I have been making steady progress, or at least what counts for progress in a game that keeps booting you back to the beginning. My own general impatience has started to become an impediment, though. I've beat Meg a few times, but usually I'm so kind of latently annoyed with the run back that I get sloppy.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 11:34 (nine months ago) link
Beat the Bone Hydra and made it a bit into Elysium, but I think I may switch to God Mode.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:41 (nine months ago) link
Playing on God Mode has been a lot of fun, since it makes it gradually easier but not always easy. Regardless, it's been a great way to grind, should I ever choose to increase the difficulty again (which I guess you can toggle on and off on the fly).
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 23 July 2023 18:28 (nine months ago) link
It kinda lost its hold on me, I got sick of doing the mostly-same thing over and over (although I know I'm partially to blame for sticking to the same weapon). Maybe I should try god mode.
― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Sunday, 23 July 2023 19:15 (nine months ago) link
Here's something I just started doing that's kept me interested. Rather than focus on level/enemy progression, focus on all of the other little meta progression things you can achieve. For example, just work on accumulating keys, to unlock certain things. Or try for purple crystals to unlock mirror boosts. Or grind for gems to complete chores and whatnot. A lot of these things will ultimately help you in the end, afaict, and they're kind of fast and fun things to focus on, making each run productive even if you don't make it that far.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 July 2023 21:54 (nine months ago) link
Yes! That's much closer to the way I played it. Honestly, while I did think about using God Mode when I got a bit frustrated I would have never actually done it. Trying and failing and making small bits of progress is the thing, not just winning as fast as possible.
― emil.y, Monday, 24 July 2023 22:25 (nine months ago) link
Finished my first run. Obviously God Mode gave me a big boost, though I think it was also because I (literally) lucked out with a great Chaos boon that gave me special up to 300% more damage. I was loaded out with the machine gun/rocket launcher, so I would typically just run around firing off bombs that, as I progressed, would just get more and more powerful. Plus, I had leveled up the mirror to give me health back based on a percentage of Darkness, and since I just kept accumulating Darkness, it kept me nice and healthy. Of course, one thing I can try to gauge God Mode vs. boon combination is doing another run with the current setup, but turning God Mode off, to see how far I get. Maybe I'll try that.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 29 July 2023 14:51 (nine months ago) link
Nicely done! I think my first completion was with the gun yet that would eventually not be the weapon I found most succuss with overall.
― octobeard, Saturday, 29 July 2023 18:22 (nine months ago) link