The Band.

John Simon made a circuit of local (Hudson Valley, upstate NY) public libraries a few years ago, basically doing a q&a. While he stated up front that his memory isn’t great, he did say the following: he's on Robbie's side on the authorship dispute with Levon; Antonioni originally wanted the Band to do the music for Zabriske Point; Bob Dylan asked Simon to be his "musical secretary" for Renaldo & Clara (Simon declined); and he singled out Prince's "Erotic City" as a song that really knocked him out production-wise. He also played (piano) and sang a song from one of his solo records. Someone in the audience had a copy he wanted John to sign; John joked, “Ah, so you’re the one who bought it!” but also seemed genuinely appreciative that someone was into his solo work.

been playing that Richard Manuel's The Band playlist ever since UMS shared it, and i've been consistently knocked out by "in a station," which i'd always thought of as a minor track on big pink. no longer.

Seems like Antonioni wanted everybody in Rock in 1969 to do music for Zabriskie Point. Of course, this Band thing kind of explains him hiring the even more off the wall roots mavens (US) Kaleidoscope later.

Oho. I've never heard it---saw the film on tcm long ago, don't remember the music, but this says a lot gathered/recorded for soundtrack didn't make it to the screen---but Roscoe Holcomb and John Fahey tracks are listed, seems like The Band could fit somewhere in between:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabriskie_Point_(album)

Pink Floyd ended up doing most of it, Jerry Garcia scored the love scene (which Floyd attempted, their effort rejected), and as mentioned in that article, the Doors wrote a song that was rejected, and supposedly prior to that they were considered for more.

Kaleidoscope got brought in extremely late in post-production, delivering the two songs on the album. After the work had been submitted and approved, one of the Kaleidoscope guys reported that upon receiving their paychecks, someone from MGM apologized for their small size, as "this project has gone on so long that there was barely any budget left for music: these checks are the absolute bottom of the barrel."

Those checks were the biggest payout Kaleidoscope had every gotten for their work up to that point.

...and probably after as well!

IIRC Dave Gilmour couldn't understand why Antonioni wanted them to write Country-oriented material, "because we were in L.A., where there were tons of great bands playing that kind of material."

Some of the stories Robbie and John Simon tell are exactly the same, like the one about Antonioni and Clare Peploe sitting on the edge of Levon’s bed to listen to the playback of “Across the Great Divide” and Antonioni perking up when he heard a word he recognized and making a finger gun and saying “pistole!”

Haven’t read the article yet so wondering which Kaleidoscope it was.

Correction: they tell similar stories with different but not contradictory details. Robbie mentions Clare Peploe, John Simon mentions the pistole.

Simon describes Robbie as “canny,” and this being a “consistent” quality of his.

xxp Think it was the Cali K-scope, most appropriately for the film---although, since he was trying to get Pink Floyd to go country, why not the UK or "Mexican" (actually mostly Caribbean, best I recall from promo sheet).

canny, cunning, why not.

wondering which Kaleidoscope it was.

<cough>

Seems like Antonioni wanted everybody in Rock in 1969 to do music for Zabriskie Point. Of course, this Band thing kind of explains him hiring the even more off the wall roots mavens (US) Kaleidoscope

D’oh, sorry! Can’t read/too much coffee/too late/too old/wishful thinking/zing/couldn’t resist bad joke et.

Thinking about the “canny” thing in comparison with a friend of mine. One time somebody accused him of some sort of fabrication and I asked him later “you didn’t make that up, did you?” and he said something like “no, of course not.” Some people can advance their case without actually factually dissimulating, it’s like a magician’s trick of emphasis and misdirection and concealment, which can be mildly infuriating if you have to deal with them enough. So even if Levon’s most outrageous claims were false, I understand the feeling. Also, Levon was more of a take-me-as-I-am life of the party kind of guy, whereas Robbie was more of a guy who could fit in at the sophisticated soirée, so I am starting to believe that he really was the impromptu best man or “very good man” at Bob and Sara’s wedding.

Even in Robbie’s own book a lot of the best lines belong to Levon. Maybe I should go through and post a few of them. So even if Ronnie Hawkins and John Simon are correct in asserting that Robbie wrote those songs, I can understand it still might irk the guy whose voice was being channeled. But then again Robbie said he split the publishing five ways, which Albert G. told him he didn’t have to do.

Levon didn’t want to join me in these new experiences with Bob, which put me in a hard place. I knew he felt somewhat alienated. He was becoming uncomfortable with the “show biz” aspects of rock ’n’ roll; he didn’t even like people taking his photograph. The music, the people, the lifestyle, even the private Lodestar plane we traveled in bothered him. “I ain’t that interested in touring in a Buddy Holly special,” he’d tell me. “Sometime, if the weather’s bad, that sucker could get blown right outta the sky.”

When I sat down with the guys to talk about how this music felt to them and their take on working with Bob, Richard offered, “He seems like an okay guy to me, but that run-through wasn’t very good on our end. We have to start by really learning these songs.” Bob had asked Garth to play some of the organ parts from his record, but these didn’t necessarily fit Garth’s style or aesthetic. Levon shrugged. “So far it’s sounding rough as a cob to me.”

Robbie says he got his very good memory from his bootlegging predecessors on his father’s side, or so his uncle told him.

A lot of the stuff about Dylan hooking up with The Hawks is synthesized in the book That Thin, Wild Mercury Sound, by Daryl Sanders, whom I’ve never heard of except for this book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuxefsE9bkc

Hawks spotted on Singing Drummers thread, but not in most predictable way:
"Moulty," by the Barbarians, is thee autobio of their drummer, who lost a hand, but gained a hook. "Now all I need is a girl." Other Barbarians: "Moulty!" (That's the chorus.) Prob on the 'Tube, but I no longer trust ilx to let me post it.

― dow, Monday, October 26, 2020 12:14 PM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

That was actually a session gig where Moulty was backed by members of The Band (when they were still the Hawks), not the Barbarians. He reportedly was mortified by that track.

― Chris L, Monday, October 26, 2020 12:21 PM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Oh yeah, forgot about that, sorry. It was released as by the Barbarians, and incl. on Lenny Kaye's 70s-refreshing comp, Nuggets, which is where I heard it--wiki sez:

Originally, the song was only intended to be released under the consent of Moulton, who was opposed to its distribution. However, Laurie Records released "Moulty" along with "I'll Keep On Seeing You" in February 1966 as a single. Upon discovering the distribution of the song, Moulton was infuriated with president of Laurie Records, Robert Schwartz, reportedly quarreling with him, and destroying some copies of the single.[6] Regardless, "Moulty" managed to peak at number 90 on the Billboard Hot 100, remaining on the charts for four weeks.[7] The song became somewhat of an inspiration to the band's younger followers, insisting them to "never give up no matter what the odds". However, The Barbarians were so disgruntled with management for releasing the song, despite Moulton's insistence against it, that the band soon ceased relations with the company.[6] "Moulty" was later immortalized in the compilation album, Nuggets: Original Artyfacts from the First Psychedelic Era, 1965-1968,[8] and included as a bonus track in the 2000 Sundazed Records reissue of the group's debut album.[9]

― dow, Monday, October 26, 2020 1:00 PM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think my favorite recordings of them may actually be these rehearsal studio clips that I've come across on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaKD1Vdarnw

That one is fun.

Incredible--thanks for the heads-up.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome. It's from the DVD that was included with that box set Robbie Robertson curated, A Musical History. Probably the best clip on that DVD too.

I’d always assumed it was Levon Helm singing that

There was quite a bit of that poolhouse footage used in the Classic Albums documentary, would watch the crap out of a full-length version of whatever's there.

Robbie Robertson: So are we sure it should be old depressing music cuz—

Levon helm: Right. Its just we made the words “went down ta Naz’reth” so the music kinda has to be old themed now—

Robbie: totally and we go “load off fannie!” So it’s all

Levon: All old timey words. Right

— jeremy levick (@jeremylevick) February 3, 2021

in what dreadful millennial thirsty-twitter reality is the weight "depressing"?

Wikipedia: Although it has long been believed that the reason for Helm's refusal to play [The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down] was a dispute with Robertson over songwriting credits, according to Garth Hudson the refusal was due to Helm's dislike for Joan Baez's version.

I wouldn't blame him in the slightest. I heard the Baez recording for the first time last week and it actually made me angry. Has anyone ever fucked up a cover version as badly as she did with that monstrosity?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB9vvxYocW0

I had managed to avoid hearing that until now, but yes, it's spectacularly horrible. Baez's fifty-year record may have been broken. That said, at least JBJ gets the chords right in his cover version.

Just came across this via Variety - rare live footage from 1970 (filmed for a Dutch TV broadcast).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFgyD3Uk1JQ

Just a regular gig compared to The Last Waltz, they didn't film any of Richard Manuel's numbers but he looks like he's in much better health. (We do hear him thank the audience on the band's behalf.) It looks like Robbie does harmonize a lot with the group even though he's clearly not pushing himself in the spotlight. There's no sense of any individual standing out, it's clearly a far more democratic picture of the Band, just as they were meant to be.

wow great footage

as far as I can tell Robbie's mic is always pretty much turned off or mixed so far low I can't tell if he's singing or just wanted the image that he was singing

nothing in his solo material would indicate he could sing harmony

He may be mixed a little low, but you can definitely single him out during the whoops at the end of "Cripple Creek," when his voice doesn't overlap with others (plus he may or may not interject an audible and quick "thank you" immediately after a performance, like he does here at one point, and it wouldn't make sense to turn on-and-off his mic like that).

Listen to "Bessie Smith" (on the doctored Basement Tapes and later re-located as a bonus track on Cahoots), his voice was more ordinary and less whispery back then. He's not going to sing harmony like the Beatles of the Everly Brothers, that's for sure, but the Band's harmonies have often been called ragged and individualistic, with the voices sung together but not quite together as if emphasizing the idea of community without leaving behind personal identity. Within that context, it works for him to fill out those harmonies.

He sings lead on "To Kingdom Come" on the first album, and in each part of the song, each of the other singers alternates harmonizing with him, as far as I can tell.

getting irrationally angry at that tweet lol

yeah being a dismissive dummy is really rewarded on Twitter

xpost

wow I always thought To Kingdom Come was a combo of Manuel and Danko straining high on their range

Here's how I hear it:

1st verse: Robbie and Richard in unison
1st pre-chorus ("So don't you say a word..."): Rick, Robbie doing low harmony
1st chorus: Rick and Robbie, Levon doing low harmony
2nd verse: Robbie, then Robbie and Richard in unison
2nd pre-chorus: Rick, Robbie doing low harmony
2nd chorus: Rick and Robbie, Levon doing low harmony

I can't tell if the chorus is in three-part harmony, or who's on top if so!

Now listening to the remixed version, it seems to be Richard instead of Robbie doing the low harmony on the pre-chorus? And all this is assuming they didn't double-track any voices.

Viney on "Bessie Smith" and the Robertson treatment of '75 Basement Tapes---says Heylin seized on it as (among) evidence of Robertson's plot vs. Manuel's memory (as songwriter)!
https://theband.hiof.no/articles/bessie_smith_viney.html
Most interested in this:
There is a circulating tape of Band-only basement sessions, which was due to become the sixth volume in the bootleg series The Genuine Basement Tapes. It was never released. This includes unreleased items, like a guitar instrumental version of Ruben Remus as well as other versions of Orange Juice Blues and Yazoo Street Scandal. Any of yall heard it?

That link is pretty interesting, thanks.

Viney really tears down the core of Heylin's accusations. Heylin is often a good reference - he's a thorough researcher - but he can undermine that work with a tendency to lash out at people. It can be refreshing when he calls someone out for something they did, but he also does that when the evidence doesn't warrant it. It's kind of amusing - whenever I see him in a photo or an interview, he's jolly and all smiles, but in writing, he comes off as a real curmudgeon.

though I wanted to be mad at Robbie, the new Stage Fright remix sounds great and the new tracklist does work pretty well

His new Rolling Stone interview reported that "The Rumor" was always intended as the last track, even before the rest of the Band pushed him to re-sequence it, and it acknowledged without explanation that it was moved to the end of side A even though that wasn't the original intention. Whatever, he can do what he likes, but for the most part, the new tracklist does work very well. The one exception is that "Sleeping" doesn't quite work as a closing track, and I think it flows better if you swap it with "The Rumor."

yeah agreed, I do think Sleeping does feel more like a middle song

TBH the new mix feels a little too polished and too airtight for my tastes. The previous mixes felt a bit more open and loose (more on that later). Something about the new mix sands away a bit of the character that made it sound like the Band.

The Royal Albert Hall show is excellent. Someone mentioned that this is the first time a complete "regular" show has ever been officially released, whereas their other live recordings were organized like special events - the Toussaint-arranged horns on the Academy shows and the big farewell (also with horns) of "The Last Waltz." The Academy shows are still my favorites though, so if you want to own just one live album, that's the one to get (especially the box set if you can splurge - I really like the "soundboard"-style mix that was done to the final show).

The Calgary hotel room recordings are actually my favorite bonuses here - they're kind of like Basement Tape-style recordings, but done in cozier surroundings. The riff on "The W.S. Walcott Medicine Show" sounds great on an acoustic guitar - if you didn't know better, you'd swear it was lifted from a down home blues standard. They do more covers than originals, and it kind of highlights how they're able to play any genre of roots music without breaking a sweat.

This may be too much detail for some, but anyone who's a collector or a huge fan of Stage Fright will probably know that it was already released in different mixes before this set. It wasn't until 2000 or so when some sense was made out it, but I wouldn't rely on anything Robbie's told in the interviews promoting the new set - I don't think he's lying, most likely he doesn't remember all the details (partly because he wasn't there when the rejected mixes were made).

Ken Scott (i.e. the engineer and producer behind Bowie's Ziggy Stardust recordings and George Harrison's All Things Must Pass) apparently wrote this in late 2006:

If my memory serves me correctly, members of the Band asked George Harrison for his recommendation as to who might be good to mix the album Stage Fright, as they, and this is the only part where my memory may be a little askew, didn't want Todd Rundgren to complete the project. Because of the work we had done together he named me. Time was booked at Trident for me to mix. Before starting I was informed that Glyn Johns was going to be mixing the same material (at a different studio) and may the best man win. Tapes were delivered to both of us.

As I started to set everything up for the first mix in walked Mr. Rundgren who promptly relegated me to gofer. Much to my regret I never got to do any more with the tapes...

---

Rundgren gave an interview to Relix, and here's what he said:

The Band made an agreement with Glyn Johns to have him mix the album. Since I had recorded the whole album, they figured I should have a shot at mixing the album as well. So they sent me, with the tapes, to London and put me in one studio and I would mix...Then I came back with two versions of the record (my mix and Glyn's mix). As it turned out, they weren’t completely happy with either one so we went into the studio and did a whole other series of remixes while the Band was there. So those were essentially the Band’s own remixes.

With you and Glyn both there?

No, no. Just me. Glyn Johns was too busy to leave England. So we went back (into the studio in New York) and essentially went through a very long, torturous remix process again because it was five guys. We spent all day mixing a tune and then they would take the references back and come back the next with all new ideas or sometimes start the mix all over again. So it took a terrifically long time because you had to satisfy five guys. So in the end, I have no idea actually which ones went on the original record or which ones might be on the reissues of the record because in the end they made decisions about which ones would go one. I’m pretty sure that on the original release, it was a combination of the three...they’re might have been one or two mixes I did, a couple that Glyn Johns did, but also many that we done in the third mix session with The Band all there. So the album that was re-released, I haven’t gone back and listened to it. I probably couldn’t tell you anyway which one was which. I felt a little uncomfortable in my own mixing situation because I was sent into a strange place with speakers I had never worked with before and so I was just kind of trying to make my way through it and hoped that I was getting it right. Just kind of following my instincts.

---

Andrew Sandoval produced the 2000 reissues, he found all of the mixes, the multi-tracks and paperwork, and he says he was able to identify which mix is which via the paperwork. But some have expressed doubt about their accuracy (they could've been misfiled or mislabeled) because Rundgren's own music has some very distinct characteristics that appear on the Stage Fright mixes identified as Johns's whereas the ones identified as Rundgren's kind of sound like Johns's work. (Specifically, many of the alleged Johns mixes have some egregious distortion and a graphic EQ pattern that's typical of, say, Rundgren's "I Saw the Light.")

maybe helpful for some context abt that tweet, his humor is largely abt him being “bad” at humor, his Trump impersonation is just him rambling in his own voice.... it’s not meant to be a hot take, wouldn’t take it too seriously

I do find the “old-timey” notion funny, however misapplied to The Weight, but obv ymmv