Ichiro/Sisler Watch!

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Well, Juan Pierre is even more overrated than Ichi.

I'm speculating on the consequences of Ichiro trying to drive the ball *some* of the time, as opposed to slapping it almost *all* the time. His ceiling in MLB seems to be 50 XBH a year.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 September 2004 12:42 (nineteen years ago) link

why are we faulting a player for playing to his strengths? it's not like ichiro is the rob deer of the single; his playing does not bring his team down. in addition, he's the leadoff man, whose primary job is to get on base, which ichiro does very, very well. yes he could be more patient, but how can you argue with his batting average and obp? certainly ichiro gets more attention cuz he's foreign and cuz no one else in the majors right now plays like him (aside, perhaps, xxxstein and pierre, both far inferior players), but ichiro is a helluva player.

i would be curious to see how well ichiro would adjust if he were moved down in the order to the second or third spot. in those cases, with other, slower players on base, the deep grounder that ichiro can beat out becomes a liability, not an asset. judging by ichiro's phenomenal bat control, i would be willing to bet that he would become much more of a line drive hitter...

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 10 September 2004 13:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Wade Boggs to thread...?

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 10 September 2004 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link

yall are forgetting his arm

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 10 September 2004 14:17 (nineteen years ago) link

But he's not always great at getting on base. He's second in OBP this year, but last year he was 30th, 10th in 2002, and 14th in 2001 (his MVP season). Nobody's saying that he brings the team down, but one of the top 10 players in the league? Arguable.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 10 September 2004 15:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Wade Boggs hit doubles by the truck load at the peak of his hitting prowess.

Ichiro I think is pretty similar to Tony Gwynn or perhaps even Rod Carew, who also was good at getting infield hits (especially by bunting).

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Friday, 10 September 2004 15:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd love to see Ichiro play pepper with the Green Monster for 81 games - that'd definitely (probably?) sex up his SLG.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 10 September 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=400085&statType=1

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 10 September 2004 16:00 (nineteen years ago) link

God, my work computer SUCKS BALLZ & STRIKES.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 10 September 2004 16:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Basically it shows that Ichiro has hit the monster 1x in the past 6 seasons. He has hit the ball more than 200 feet to left field 3 times in 6 seasons.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 10 September 2004 16:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Ichiro needs 26 hits to tie Sisler's seasonal record over the next 23 games. Let's say that he gets 4.4 ABs/game (seasonal average):

23 games * 4.4 ABs/game = 102 ABs

26/102 = .254 to tie the record, .265 to break it.

he's 0/8 for the weekend so far (you can't ignore his career numbers which long suggested that he was overdue for a fall back to reality). his 3 year splits show that September is by far his worst hitting month (.283, one of only 2 months that he averages less than .300). this really could go down to the wire. could you imagine if he got intentionally walked if it got close?

Here is SI's Ichiro countdown page, which is pretty cool.

― gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 12 September 2004 05:08 (nineteen years ago) link

In this article, the author says of the other Seattle hitters:

"Their bats are probably not much different than the one George Sisler swung back in 1920, when he banged out a major-league-record 257 hits."

Except for, like, their center of gravity and the thickness of their handles and their weight, sure.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 03:38 (nineteen years ago) link

higher grade pinetar nowadays too

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 12:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Don't forget the cork!

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 14:39 (nineteen years ago) link

On Topic: last night Ichiro got his third 0-4 in 4 days.

He's batting .200 in the past 7 days.

With a projected 84 at bats remaining in the season, he needs 25 hits to tie the record (.300), 26 to break it (.310).

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 15:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Another oh-fer last night. Perhaps he has something blocking his windpipe?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 September 2004 12:40 (nineteen years ago) link

he did get three walks though. two intentional.

maybe i should be posting this in the barry vs. ichiro thread...

― the leglo (the leglo), Friday, 17 September 2004 12:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Damn it. I want Ichiro to break this record, or at least get really, really close, so I can read old people getting pissed off. (This is the BEST EXAMPLE EVER.) "Dammit, I didn't watch my friends die in th' mud at Okinawa just so one-a them dadgurned Japaneseys could break Sisler's rekkid!"

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:39 (nineteen years ago) link

(PS: hitters of the '20s were so prolific because the spitball had just been banned and pitchers were leery after the Ray Chapman beanball death incident and umpires ruled that old mushy deadened balls couldn't remain in play as often, so ta-da, offensive explosion. stick it, old-timers)

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link

He's not gonna break the record.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link

He's certainly not gonna break it in 154 games. ASTERISK!!!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Exactly.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Nate, you still have to give credit to Sisler. Everyone in the league benefitted from the things you mentioned, but he was the only one who got that many hits.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Nate, that rant you linked to was awesome. Delusion at its finest.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I should really use the pejorative "scums" more often.

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Ichiro is 5 for 5 tonight. 243 hits with 11 games left after tonight, needing 15 hits.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 03:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Ichiro broke the MLB record for singles in a a season (with an asterisk) yesterday:

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link

If there's 12 games left, why the asterisk?

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:20 (nineteen years ago) link

wait when did the switch to 154 games?

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:21 (nineteen years ago) link

In 1898, when Wee Willie Keeler established the record for singles in a season, his Brooklyn Bridegrooms played 149 games. Other teams in the league played anywhere from 145-152 games that year.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Oops, I meant that Keeler played for the Baltimore Orioles. Still 149 games, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Based on some very cursory research, it looks like the 154-game season was established in 1904.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Although this site claims it was 1892, so I dunno. I'm guessing that maybe it was officially a 154-game season, but the actual likelihood of each team playing all 154 games was slim, as rain-outs probably weren't made up as frequently as they are now. (The Cubs' games from Sunday-Tuesday of this week were each in a different city!)

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:00 (nineteen years ago) link

so how many anti-ichiro screeds has BP put up so far? or is he still not getting enough attention/praise to make the effort worthwhile?

― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Baseball Prospectus is like the No Depression of MLB mags

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:36 (nineteen years ago) link

it's more like the OMNI of MLB mags.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

more like the ILM of music mags (if ILM was a mag)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:47 (nineteen years ago) link

nah, it's not that bad.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:49 (nineteen years ago) link

ack, I meant to write "the ILM of MLB mags", but I guess the point was made.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 23:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Ichiro has 3 more hits tonight, giving him 246 on the year, 11 hits to tie with 10 games left. Y'all do the math

oh and to paraphrase gygax up yonder, Raul Ibanez is 6 for 6, wtf

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:01 (nineteen years ago) link

make that four hits! Ichiro is up to 247 hits and a .374 BA

ten games to go...

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:42 (nineteen years ago) link

He did it! He tied Sisler in the 1st inning tonight. With 3 games left, it seems academic at this point whether he'll get more than Sisler.

Incredible.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 2 October 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link

...and one AB later, he breaks Sisler's record. What a machine.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 2 October 2004 01:52 (nineteen years ago) link

awesome! he's also got the record for most hits in a four year span.

he's 30 - i can't help but wonder how long he'll be keeping this up.

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 2 October 2004 02:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd like to take credit for beginning the countdown long before anyone in the media thx

― Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 2 October 2004 02:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Full credit given, Gear. I didn't know the name George Sisler prior to seeing this thread, and I sure as fuck wasn't paying attention to anything relating to the Mariners 'til this.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 2 October 2004 02:43 (nineteen years ago) link

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 2 October 2004 05:41 (nineteen years ago) link

oops OTM

― gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 2 October 2004 06:46 (nineteen years ago) link

But of course.

― David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 2 October 2004 13:44 (nineteen years ago) link

awhile ago i mentioned a study of speed's traditionally unquantified effects on the game, with ichiro as the focal point. i finally found it: http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/ichiro.htm

what's most interesting to me at the moment is that tippet implies ichiro's speed on the basepaths more than makes up for his many infield singles presumably failing to advance runners the traditional 2 bases. i don't know about that, but it would seem that basic run metrics like EQR, VORP, or RC might end up with a pretty accurate estimation of ichiro's worth after all. (he's also said to create a further unmeasured ~5 runs due to his DP/GB rate, so they may indeed undershoot his worth)

here's where he places among fellow ALers:

EQR 2nd
EQA 10th
VORP 4th
RC 1st
RC/27 7th

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 2 October 2004 13:45 (nineteen years ago) link

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