The Dance Music Nobody Talks About S & D

there's prog house i like and prog house i hate i guess

I think one take that has for the most part been very critically popular for the last two decades is along the lines of "dance music shouldn't be about middle-class people getting all PLUR in expensive sneakers at a superclub, it should be dirty and nasty in an underground club with the lights off".

In certain contexts that can be a useful corrective - and I remember when I was first getting into dance music in a big way the relative dominance of the Gatecrasher to Global Underground continuum felt vaguely oppressive - but I think there's a risk of applying it too reflexively and ahistorically.

one of the best moments of my life was when i was completely losing my paranoid shit at a rave in LA because of all the lights and assholes taking cellphone selfies and then omar s came on the decks and made them turn off every single light in the hosue except for one purple bulb just behind his feet that was pointed out and at the floor, casting the warehouse into near pitch black darkness and outlining our legs in an eerie eldritch glow <3

i was about to reflexively start stabbing motherfuckers who didn't have the decency to let me get out of the way before snapping their dumb group photos. in the middle of a rave! jfc

i mean that wasn't the only reason i was paranoid ... but it was the only one omar could control ... :-/

oh i already told that story lol ... Omar-S / FXHE

that was the last rave i ever went to ... 39 is too old and crusty to be paranoid at a rave ... let alone 43 ...

sorry for reverie

that was the last rave i ever went to ... 39 is too old and crusty to be paranoid at a rave ... let alone 43 ...

― the late great, Monday, 14 September 2020 00:49 (fifty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm now imagining this whole story as a monologue delivered over an eerie deep house tune a la Marshall Jefferson vs Noosa Heads - "Mushrooms (Salt City Orchestra Remix)".

haaaaaaa

i saw digweed a few years ago and the gen xers i was with were entranced but i thought it was garbage lol

― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Monday, 14 September 2020 00:08 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

My unverified sense is that there's a limited window period where s & d were crossed over into Hardkiss sounds - I vaguely remember reading an interview with them where they talked about having their minds blown visiting Florida and hearing Rabbit In The Moon (who were initially associated with the Hardkiss label).

First disc of Northern Exposure 1 is probably the most well-known example of that but it's actually too floaty. My favourite thing that they did is the first disc of Northern Exposure II (which lol is literally called "East Coast") - scintillating melodic breakbeat prog.

But that window closed pretty quickly as the whole global prog sound had really hardened by the end of the 1990s (though haha I guess the contemporary circuit party sound makes late 90s prog sound pretty creative and diverse by comparison).

oooh love this thread for a few reasons ... not to jinx it. some old ilx vibes to it or something.

ive been listening to a lot of stuff that i'm not sure how it codes on the respectability scale ... from the early 90s, a lot of it italian? Dance Floor Corporation stuff. It'll seem like total cheeseball stuff, IE this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIuXc3e8pK0
Ramirez - El Gallinero

but I'm not sure if Balearic revival made it cool or not ... early 90s to mid 90s trance and ... idk these weird italian compilations on streaming services under the label/distro name "Expanded Music Srl" and if you look at their office on google street view it appears to be a gas station in italy. sometimes the comp will have, like, sueno latino on it, and im like oh this is celebrated shit, and then other times its got the sound effect of a rooster crowing, or it has afrika bambaataa on it ... why was afrika bambaataa like insanely popular in early 90s Italy? I told Tim & Brad this story, but I remember my first year at college having a T1 connection for the first time and downloading a ton of music on Audiogalaxy or whatever, and trying to learn about old school hip hop I downloaded the first Afrika Bambaataa mp3 that popped up, Feel the Vibe. I remember being really confused.

Anyway the Expanded Music Srl website has a funny collection of weird dodgy comps with weird art with names like "90s summer party" and "Mantra House Vol. 3" etc... I think there's some pretty decent cheese in here that also occasionally kind of beautiful or moving:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URwq1rq9fJE

But again i'm consuming this stuff at a remove, its place on the respect > cheese spectrum is tough for me to judge, and the rising tide of balearic probably made a lot of this stuff seem cooler, or maybe its too late on the timeline to totally get the effects of the mid 80s stuff?

another mid 90s dance music thing, along the lines of what map was talking about when he mentioned reggaeton ... i think angolan kuduro has some cool shit that should get a revival of interest, imho ... Bruno Castro's "No Fear" CD is from 1996 but it has some rad unique grooves to it, on streaming services you can check out this comp Ondas Do Kuduro which has some of the 90s classics like "Sofia" "Acucar" "Pra Ka Ta" "Parodia Tribal" all of which were on No Fear

https://http2.mlstatic.com/D_NQ_NP_22912-MLB20239451450_022015-O.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcYbnz0ke-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfTFB6PYRYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuc5ifBkjY

I suppose there's two different conversations - there's the dance music we talk about in the magazines and websites *we* read, where people like Jayda G and Octo Octa are celebrated for playing a certain way, and then there's the actuality of going out, which is that the biggest names on the biggest line-ups etc are people playing muscular tech-house.

Also Tim F please invite me to this secret prog listening club as it is a total blindspot in my tastes

http://finn-johannsen.de/2018/06/11/finn-johannsen-twin-cities-no-11/

this mix is something I've come back to a few times over the past few years - it's that soulful, r&b/gospel influenced style of house, funky rather than banging, Frankie Knuckles remixing Toni Braxton and Whitney Houston, late period Masters At Work, the kind of thing you find on CD2 of the lesser Hed Kandi albums. I love this stuff but it's very not cool, at least not just now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9UHcRrCWlI

Tell the world my name, whos that? Andy Cole
I blazed the scene, scored the goal

Lot of releases on smaller labels Fulham, Blackburn, and the long defunct Sunderland, but the more popular Old Trafford stuff probably the best

i completely lost my shit when the 3d animated rooster enters the mix and starts crowing in that El Gallinero track, it is hilarious. and that Ella G track is some cheesy goodness and beautiful too. it's in a very postmodern sweet spot (intentionally?) collapsing low/high & sacred/profane.

stuff like this reminds me of PC Music. like if you just run with it (and you can handle it) you might encounter some divine ineffable state of cheesy bliss... idk if that's a stretch but lots of pop coming out lately pushes the limits of taste the same way, ya? bladee comes to mind. very 2020 but maybe it'll sound just as cornball when we look back in another 25 years. i wonder if artists fucking around making this kind of extreme cheesecore are more or less self aware now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

yea this andy cole track does the same thing! some flavors of cheesiness will put u in a beatific state

Idk abt pc music I’ve been skeptical but i feel like I might have “lost” that battle? But bladee doesn’t seem cheesy to me it seems like ppl just think it’s cool stuff trying to seem cheese but lacks the go-for-broke mercenary thirst for success or s thing

yea, prolly right about bladee and all that.

getting back on track, i’d been looking for a place to post this Paradis record Recto Verso. (was there a thread for underappreciated indie pop albums? i thought there was but couldn’t find it.) it’s a great album that went very much under the radar, but somehow it’s the now most valuable thing in my vinyl collection. also it’s rather proggy, and i too would be interested in the prog listening club

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9NnukHxmzY

D-40, but I think there is a kuduro revival happening through a lot of Nyege Nyege and Principe stuff, but much of what I've heard of it is being put into the more "post-reconstructed" genre. https://soundcloud.com/nyege-nyege-tapes/dj-chengz-lucian-kuduros-mix-tape-side-a

Breastcrawl might have a better idea of that sort of thing, tho!

I was literally just listening to this banger when I read this, updating myself on some recent Angolan stuff for the first time in months:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXpXq5rxKdA
New Kiss ft. Leo Hummer & DJ Vlado Poster • Abre o Pé

Kuduro is alive and kicking ass, but confusingly they call it not just that in Angola, but also “Afro-House”. I’ve been posting this stuff on the Rolling Afro thread since I found about “Sem Maldades” by Os Santiegos in 2018.
Both the music and the dancing are incredibly high-octane and fun as hell. I tend to have a couple of days every year when this bug bites me and I feel like this is the best music in the world. Producer DJ Vado Poster is pretty much a genius. brb posting some of this shit on Rolling Afro!

it’s DJ *Vado* Poster, sorry

Yah I’ve been keeping up w new Angolan stuff too I’m really into this song:

https://youtu.be/NVkpPRu77Js
Dj Malvado - amingas

But I never see ppl call it kuduro for some reason

I think of principe etc as a different thing since it’s not really based in Angola and they themselves seem not to call it that idk

that’s exactly why that “Afro-House” moniker is so confusing: DJ Malvado comes at this from the house side of things, so “Afro house” is a very apt description for what he does, even if he incorporates kuduro/batida into his sound like in this track, whereas the stuff I’m talking about (including this and the other tracks I’ve been posting) does this the other way around (note the name of the YouTube channel the track I posted is on!) - the format is 3-minute beat-heavy joints with chanted lyrics (maybe the latter aspect is what makes it ‘kuduro’?)

You could make a comparison with Nigerian zanku (which came up later), where the beats were (initially) processed from Uhuru-style SA house and (later) gqom, but which otherwise stuck to the Naija pop template.

(btw I don’t mean to imply that these are two different musical worlds at all: Malvado and Vado Poster have worked together on several occasions for instance)

this ~tries~ to explain it (couldn’t find anything better tbqh): http://kizombalove.com/en/kuduro-versus-afro-house/

wow @ this Jayda G mix, why didn't I listen to this sooner?!

When "Both Of Us" comes in it is like someone parted the clouds for a pure beam of sunshine

https://www.residentadvisor.net/podcast-episode.aspx?id=756

Roza Terenzi, proggy and trancey and excellent

hell yes, her solo productions are amazing. i'm especially fond of this EP: https://rozaterenzi.bandcamp.com/album/lets-ride

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/arts/rashaad-newsome-assembly-exhibit.html?fbclid=IwAR29Cwi9nOHB_hBGiE_70Ljlxj0l-kFgBeTTHu7NdsPcrIRpmJH4jdz0Xzs

Vogueing in Rashaad Newsome exhibit/ performance/ discussion/theatre/ art piece in NYC

Vogueing runs like a thread throughout “Assembly,” Newsome’s grand, opulent and smart exhibition at the Park Avenue Armory. The project goes light years beyond his formal forays into vogue, weaving together a video installation, collages, sculptures, an hourlong performance with dance and singers; and a workshop conducted by Being, a cloud-based artificial intelligence that Newsome designed. “Assembly” is a rich sensory experience, as well as a springboard for rethinking the roots of American culture.

I feel like we're on the cusp of a hard house revival. I'm noticing DJs dropping tracks in Boiler Rooms and Essential Mixes which were considered naff even the first time around for being bouncy and over 140bpm. I'm into it, to be honest.

Yeah hard house and trance are defo back

My DJ mate who's heavily into early 90s rave revivalism told me recently that hard house and trance were just around the corner, and that we should think about putting something on that spanned this spectrum. Meanwhile, I went to Trade's delayed 30th birthday event at Egg last month, and danced to hard house for the best part of 12 hours, something I've not done in over 20 years. Damn, that felt good.

I feel like the trance revival has been ongoing and in different forms for the past few years - all that "deconstructed" Lorenzo Senni stuff, for example. Whereas hard house, as a seperate thing, seems to be making a rehabilitation in a way I've never really picked up on before. Even someone like Ben UFO is in Instagram videos playing Tony De Vit singles, which I couldn't have forseen a few years ago.

I wish I had been old enough to go to Trade, both the culture and the music sound amazing. I love this documentary from Channel 4 from the late 90s about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZqmjV_IydY

I went regularly to Trade from 1994 to 2000. Just the best club ever. The vibe was once described as “frenzied and mellow”, which sums it up perfectly.

I’m looking forward to no longer having to talk about the hard house 12”s I put out in the late 90’s /early 00’s as some kind of guilty past I have to atone for.

My first underage club visits were to jungle / D&B but my real clubbing honeymoon was to hard house and trance at the Hip’po in Cardiff and tbh I had a whale of a time bouncing around to joyous nonsense like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5xXGbSd_o0

Used to love Hippos. Was a regular there in the early to mid-90s (and also the techno night they had downstairs on a Friday)

Yep ‘ID’ and ‘Sacred Grooves’ (I think) downstairs, fun times.

Went to Trade a couple of times in the mid 90s. Loved the club, loved the culture, didn't love the music. :)

As an aside, in the mid 90s a friend of mine ran a successful Thursday night club playing ultra deep house and techno. He used to go on and on about how he had the most sophisticated audience in the city. I was always a bit cynical about his bold claims and figured people mainly just liked going out to that particular club and were not really too invested in what he was playing.

I would play there from time to time and decided to try out an experiment. I mainly stuck to the vibe playing Mood II Swing and Basic Channel type records. But about an hour in, I decided to mix in this Hard House promo I’d been sent that week that was completely OTT, with every BIG record trope imaginable including having a 128 bar mega roll breakdown. He ran over to the booth in total horror to ask what the **** I was doing. I just pointed at the dancefloor which was going off to a level never previously seen at his night. The entire club was on the dancefloor, going bonkers, the bar staff were up on the bar etc. etc.

I don’t think he ever fully forgave me.

128 bar mega snare roll breakdown.

Haha, nice story!

Trance has definitey been a thing for a fair few years now among trendy DJs - and TBH there’s not much between the large commercial techno popular now and hard house.

I want to know what this 128 bar snare roll track is now :D

i wish i could remember. Some long lost white label promo.

Probably easier to list all 10 hard house / trance tunes without that kind of breakdown

Haha, very good.

I feel like I missed a trick 10 years or so ago when I had a friend who lived in Brixton and was always raving about the vibe at the hard trance nights at the sadly departed 414 club. At the time the idea of dancing to anything above 130pm filled me with dread.

love stirmonster's story. i had a similar experience last summer but with an old vocal house tune. never put too much stock into other djs is my motto, trust yourself. no one knows anything, you know as much as anybody. anyway, i know absolutely nothing about hard house other than i'm staying in my slow 130 bpm and below lane for now. xp lol