Let's talk about Derrick May

mostly forgettable standard-issue techno

he made lots of music that is anything but standard-issue but I don't really feel like defending his music in light of all of this. I can't imagine wanting to hear it again.

I used to know him pretty well and once upon a time would have said I'd find it hard to imagine all these stories being true, but sadly life has shown me you just never know what people are capable of.

Yeah this is just horrible. Worse it still feels like the tip of an iceberg.

that's interesting. i've personally not really heard many tracks that do sound like "it is what it is" or "nude photo". perhaps you could point us toward some standard issue techno tracks that do, so we don't have to listen to music by an abuser.

No thanks, although I'm sure this passive-aggressive bullshit probably sounded much better in your head.

your post was really awesome and worthwhile, jon123, thank you for your contribution

(sounded better in my head)

sorry if i come across as a massively arrogant and sneery wanker, it was an honest question

i mean i'm happy for you that you're not feeling the sense of loss the rest of us are ... it would probably help me process my grief and disappoint better if i wasn't so attached to my favorite music

guess i just have bad taste or something

tlg, you sounded fine. a little flippant, which given the “I was always right, this guy sucks” comment you were responding to, is relatable

stirmonster’s post is great and reminded me a lot of a guy I knew who had always been pretty nice to me and had some level of accomplishment (in the restaurant business, which... I’d say there are parallels to music) until similar allegations came to light and it was the beginning of an entire house of cards dropping.
of course, the first reaction from a bunch of people was “his food sucked”

I was listening to something today that had a spoken word bit talking about Detroit techno history and as soon as I heard May’s name my heart sunk

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fgroove.de%2F2020%2F09%2F11%2Fdie-causa-erick-morillo-und-derrick-may-den-opfern-ein-forum-geben%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0RqWFgTerrqDp84RYXnUSboj0vL3SLVgcJOh9OzHv5AL6_lUZ4LfCnKR8&sandbox=1

https://undergroundandblack.com/2020/09/12/setting-the-record-straight/

Carl’s reaction to this is dispiriting to say the least

idk derrick was his like mentor and older brother. i was just looking at the liners to the psyche / bfc comp and he talks about how he recorded all that shit as a teenager at derrick's place with his guidance. i mean for all we know derrick molested him too

i agree that it's dispiriting but honestly it's par for the course with this sort of thing

i'm not trying to make excuses for cc but in my professional life i've seen moms carry water for spouses who beat them and teenagers do the same for relatives that raped them so i'm just not at all surprised when close friends circle the wagons around abusers.

it's totally understandable why CC would defend him. Misguided and wrong, but understandable.

Kill yr idols.

i never wanted to but more and more it looks like i'm going to have to ... i mean i really thought dance music was a plur utopia compared to, say, hip hop rock country or metal ... shows how dumb i was

DJ Mag talks to many of the women:

https://djmag.com/longreads/multiple-women-report-sexual-assault-and-harassment-derrick-may

just absolutely fucking awful

Sickening.

A further story, more accounts:

https://ra.co/features/3828

the difference between detroit and those other cities is that there are semi-interesting things happening there. it is a near vacuum out here. There are poor people everywhere, but those cities have actual functioning urban environments. You know, like people walking around downtown after 5pm. Detroit is screwed up even in the nice places, if you want to see what happens when regional planning makes every decision incorrectly for 60 years, it will look a lot like southeastern michigan.

Yeh, but May wouldn't be able to spend 10 minutes in a London jungle club without crying like a baby fearing that the unemployed crackheads were out to shoot him. That's what you Yanks don't get about UK, you wanted to disavow hip hop for not being elegant enuf, whereas we had no pretensions otherwise. Of course 91 hardcore made rave awful! That what makes it so good, give the posh blokes an aneurism. It got even better in 93 when people started to get mugged. It's the truth. Jeff Mills was total rudeboy, he is miles above May because he started out in hip hop. You can tell it in his mixing. There's also more of a futuristic latin vibe in Mills, much more how samba actually sounds in Brazil at that speed.

great revive

xtra xtra xtra spiced funky, m8! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az3VJj88OAM

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZyBuweob8

Kraftwerk were tbf the original sin of techno, too feudalistic and romantic, too indebted to petit-bourgeois psychosexual fascination with mastering machines. Techno got really good when the dead labour living in the machines dominated man. What was needed was a psychotic soul, derived from electro.

hey thirdform.

Kraftwerk were feudalistic AND petit bourgeois? Does that mean they were European AND white? My lack of awareness just shows how much I’ve been assimilated, probably.

This bit tho:

It got even better in 93 when people started to get mugged.

I was just listening to I think Fabio & Grooverider’s first Kiss FM show from ‘91, it’s a bit shit. I can certainly see how ‘93 would be an improvement.

nah, you want Top Buzz nye 1991-1992. Leo Anibaldi bassbar!

*furiously Googling*

Shit I accidentally bolded

Kraftwerk were feudalistic AND petit bourgeois? Does that mean they were European AND white? My lack of awareness just shows how much I’ve been assimilated, probably.

No, just romantics for a bygone society. D.A.F were the true blood, muscle and sinew of German proletarian music at the time. No real classical melodic content, just bluesy synth sequences set to punish yer body industrial beats. The factory is sex. Screw that hippy space nonsense. Get raw.

hey thirdform.

Hoping for someone to recommend me private press Mongolian cumbia meets throat singing meets speedcore noise lps on here. Other place is getting a bit too grandad. Told Lucius to defend the lads before the Germany game but alas.

*furiously Googling*
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Tuesday, 29 June 2021 09:46 (one hour ago)

check this one as well from '91

proper guttertronix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DooDLH23w-Y

I like how the Derrick May thread now becomes a dumping ground for all that hardcore stuff he so deeply despises.

Well, since you asked so nicely:
https://www.mixcloud.com/y7nlwz/dj-dsl-energy-fm-879-1st-april-1995/

That's what you Yanks don't get about UK, you wanted to disavow hip hop for not being elegant enuf, whereas we had no pretensions otherwise.

literally what the fuck are you talking about with this bullshit?

lmao

so sad that the US disavowed hip hop. will we never understand this strange and exotic music the way the UK does?

lool some steaming hot-takes

is this Leeroy Thornhill

I'm guessing he means UK hiphop, but it's a puzzler.

literally what the fuck are you talking about with this bullshit?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 29 June 2021 14:17

It's not bullshit. There's no hip hop in Derrick May's vision of detroit techno. May was a complete europhile (probably the most europhilic out of that bunch.) So when people like Michael Taylor called hardcore awful, it makes sense why. I mean it was $25 to get into the music institute, hardly cheap in peak reagan
era was it? May has marketted himself well, which is why people are shocked by him being an absolute piece of nasty work, because detroit techno is not a righteous music at all, not until UR and Mills come about. And Rob Hood was a big Public Enemy fan and Mills started out in hip hop. It's why they had a greater taste for hardcore and minimalist sounds.

Not really clear though how Derrick May is representative of US attitudes toward hip hop.

(also debatable that there's no hip hop influence in his music or DJing)

(also weird for views on techno and hip hop to stop somewhere in the early 90s)

also weird because Mills was a popular DJ in Detroit before May even started

Not really clear though how Derrick May is representative of US attitudes toward hip hop.

He isn't. That would disqualify a lot of aux 88, Drexciya, detroit electro and ghettotech orientated djs like DJ Assault (who incidentally has played chipmunk hardcore and jungle.)

But the US (and tbf UK Mayday purists) almost see dance music as being opposite to hip hop. In the UK hip hop merged into dance music. Quite a bit of hardcore actually has a britcore chassy which at the time was called hardcore cos it was faster than US HH.

And behave yourselves: there is no such thing as UK HH, it's a post-93 invension, angsty whiteboy rubbish.

yes, Mills was a hip hop orientated radio DJ. That's my point!

so in other words, the UK didn't have much of a hip hop scene, so they ended up embracing dance music that drew influence from and embodied the spirit of hip hop, while in the US, which has a massive hip hop scene, people tended to just enjoy hip hop. I think this mystery has been solved.

so in other words, the UK didn't have much of a hip hop scene, so they ended up embracing dance music that drew influence from and embodied the spirit of hip hop, while in the US, which has a massive hip hop scene, people tended to just enjoy hip hop. I think this mystery has been solved.

Yes, hip hop and acid house were part of the same imported street beats continuum. It's why we were all over Todd Terry sampladelic ny hip house, even if that stuff was unthinkably mechanical for the proper disco/paradise garage-descended bods.

But, for instance, James Stinson and Gerald Donald were far more inventive than May ever was, but they don't fit into the same kind of white mythologising, because their music is not as susceptible to mythmaking. Whilst I cringe at this guys personal journey he has a point about a lot of white detroit purists:

The sense was like ‘they’ had tried to tell you that techno was something white, something cheesy, something commercial. Something soulless. But here, so the counter-narrative would have it, was ‘high tech soul’, made by real, oppressed black people (dreaming of space from a post-industrial ghetto). It was, so the riddle ran, a music so unquestionably authentic that to present an opinion to the contrary would invoke an accusation of ignorance, or even heresy, followed by a lecture on the Belleville Three. For white kids from the Melbourne suburbs, this allowed them to be righteously proud of aligning themselves with a noble tradition, which, in turn, allowed them to make peace with the fact that they all grew up listening to…. Technotronic, Snap, and M People, of course. Is it any different to the quiet joy of the Vanilla Ice fan who discovers Ice T and Ice Cube? He who ended up in Wu Wear often began with Twelve Inches of Snow. Never, ever underestimate the power of guilty pleasures in shaping musical taste.

So many old bods love Pink Floyd, one of the most obnoxiously English posh boy public school bands of all time. And actually, a lot of italo disco is the cheesy eurodance of its day. Noone in London likes it, because the black electroboogie/rnb from America (which maydays high school prep parties swerved to an extent for europhilia) was just so much more ahead of plustwo - melody or crazy gang babys song. I like both of those records, but I don't call them 'progressive' they are cheesy as all hell!

oops here's the article I pulled that quote from. http://mnmlssg.blogspot.com/2008/06/detroit-myth-hating-myth-creating-part_19.html

But the US (and tbf UK Mayday purists) almost see dance music as being opposite to hip hop. In the UK hip hop merged into dance music.

I don't think this is remotely true at all! It ignores the existence of the ghetto house/juke/footwork continuum, ghettotech, electro in its various forms, Baltimore/Jersey/Philly club, Miami bass, NYC house going back as far as Todd Terry, LA beat scene/wonky stuff, ballroom/voguing beats, Detroit house, hip house, like 75% of Afro-American dance music ever made. Maybe true of whitewashed festy stuff and techno europhiles and some of the more purist house strains (the latter of which absolutely embraces other pre-electronic Black American musical forms), but so much US dance music has been intimately connected to hip-hop all along, just not necessarily the stuff that's been embraced the most by the yt dance establishment. And Moodles' point applies as well. If I go see any of my friends DJ, at least half the tracks they drop are going to have explicit hip-hop influences, if not just straight up dropping hip-hop tracks into their dance sets.

James Stinson and Gerald Donald were far more inventive than May ever was, but they don't fit into the same kind of white mythologising

what?!?!?!

because their music is not as susceptible to mythmaking

WHAT?!?!?!

Does Derrick May extensively play ghetto house or juke? Because I never heard him do so and ive listened to quite a lot of his sets. i saw DJ Rashad in London at around the same time I saw May, and I know which one I would go see again, if he were still alive.