Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream poll

I've somehow managed never to hear this album in its entirety. Beyond the big singles, I was never that drawn to the Pumpkins, in no small part because of lil' Billy's vocal antics.

Totally OTM. It's also interesting how some ppl here are saying Loveless; others prog, emo, Queen, Rush, etc.

He's been very open about his love for, and influence from, MBV as well as Queen and Rush.

yup, merging the old and contemporary influences skillfully was BC's main innovation I think (along with about 6-7 years of remarkably prolific songwriting)

Yes, I was pointing out how it's a multifaceted album in that respect - it sounds like MBV to some ppl and Queen to others (and they're all "correct").

To bring up Pavement again (heh heh) - it's like how some ppl were sure that their early stuff sounded like the Swell Maps, others called them a Fall ripoff, others said Tall Dwarves, VU, Wire, SY, etc. They were all right! And yet Pavement also just sounded like Pavement.

revisitng this as I always happy to

Soma / Geek / Mayo might be the best hat trick of....any rock album, really

it's really amazing that even though a bunch of the outtakes are great they more or less nailed the song selection and sequence

the only change I might be tempted to suggest just for variety's sake would be to find a place for Iha's gorgeous "Blew Away"

the only sd-era b-side i'd want on the album is "whir," and god knows it doesn't fit and is perfect where it is on pisces iscariot

i love this discussion about sd's sequencing and length btw, i've listened to this album millions of times and i probably couldn't tell you what the tracklist is in order, every move it makes is kind of a surprise that also adds some new dynamic to the record

I would watch a movie-length documentary about butch and billy trying to select/sequence this record tbh

re: the dynamics discussion earlier, idk that there's a 90s major label rock song with a more extreme dynamic shift than "Soma"; the quiet parts are genuinely, hauntingly quiet. I remember always being at the ready to crank the volume nob down before the RIFF crashes in

album is also a feat of mixing cf. the layered guitar nonsense all over but for instance cf. the layered guitar nonsense at the end of "today"

amazing the drums don't sound like cardboard

also i realize billy corgan's voice is objectively horrible but that gentle high-whisper thing he often does floats over the guitar crunch really nicely and his voice is genuinely pleasing to my ear on parts of "hummer" "soma" and "mayo" and especially the verses of "rocket" (caveat i actually really love billy's studio singing up to a point and that point is machina/zwan; his live singing... mostly regrettable)

yes yes yes (re high whisper)

Yeah - I have no problem with his voice on these early records.

nice to see the enthusiasm for this record. as a teen i listened to it a lot but i never really burned for it. i just listened to the first half and beyond being surprised that i have it all mostly memorized, it really does nothing for me now - sort of nice to confirm that i'm just not into this band at all through going back to what everyone seems to agree is their best record. though weirdly i like reading all of these threads about them.

also i just wanted to say that the drums on "geek usa" are insane

jimmy chamberlin has secret octopus arms

Corgan has that kind of voice where you wonder how he ever decided he could/should be a singer. It's an objectively bad noise a lot of the time and he must have a stupid amount of self-confidence/delusion to force it upon the world (I realise lacking confidence isn't something of which you could accuse Corgan).

Ftr, I love his voice on Siamese Dream (and fell gradually out of love with it).

My guess is Corgan knows he’s a bad singer but still wants to record his own songs. Singing is hard!

I would probably enjoy them less if they had a “good” singer tbh

just imagine someone singing “my boredom has outshined the sun” straight

Do bands still release B-sides compilations? Or is that just not a thing any more? Thinking about the great B-sides comps of the nineties - Incesticide, Pisces Iscariot etc, this is a bit of shame

Seems like these comps happen over on BandCamp or as special Spotify "Streaming Only" releases. These days mostly stray stuff gets saved for Deluxe Editions of albums.

The Wilco box set from awhile back was an amazing unintentional epitaph for these kinds of collections: 4 discs of previously released material taken from B-Sides, soundtracks, tribute albums, radio samplers, benefit albums, and perhaps fittingly, one of the last songs was the flip to an RSD exclusive 45.

i've posted this before but i never have any idea what people have in mind when they think billy corgan's singing is bad on these records. like, what kind of voice would slide better into these layers of sound? or better express that frail and bedazzled child at the heart of the maelstrom? are we imagining michael bolton or what?

He sounds like Mick Jagger sometimes.

i admit i could be won over by The Smashing Pumpkins feat. Brad Delp

His voice is this weak, mewling thing and it fits perfectly - particularly on Siamese Dream. I'm happy with both of these things being true.

I don't have a working cassette deck to play the 1989 demo tape that comes in the Pisces Iscariot box, but of course I found it on YouTube... some real Cure influence happening back then, huh?

It's not that he isn't James LaBrie, it's that sometimes he sounds like he's recreating a scene from Deliverance.

His voice can be unpleasant as hell to listen to. I like SP but I don't begrudge someone who can't get past his voice.

I mean, Kurt Cobain wasn't exactly Mario Lanza and generally people like his vocals.

should have gotten the guy from Smash Mouth if he really wanted to sell to the masses

We've talked about it a lot but in the context of the music, I really like what he did pre-95. After that point, his voice got really unpleasant for me and was also foregrounded in the mix a lot more.

I mean, I probably would like Kurt Cobain or Chris Cornell better on "Tonight Tonight".

iirc the mcis vocal takes are all flood egging billy on and getting this deliberately raw and in your face and ott performance but i still think moments like "galapogos" are really lovely (and moments like "in the arms of sleep" are.... very rough)

adore has his best vocals but ofc they're not always cushioned by guitar noise and they are really mixed upfront

Kurt doing "Tonight Tonight" is extremely funny when I play it out in my brain

I mean, it was off the top of my head and Cornell might have been a better example but I don't really think his ballad voice would have been more ridiculous than what's actually on the record.

"And they all want you to change..." ;)

Kurt doing "Tonight, Tonight" would probably involve him screaming part of it an octave higher for no reason at one random point

Replace "an octave higher" with "out of tune" and that's what it sounds like to me rn.

I’m having a hard time picturing anybody else who could sing the lyrics of “tonight tonight” convincingly... maybe Neil diamond?

Prince maybe

I want to hear Julien Baker sing of crucifying the insincere, and she'd kill those long held notes.

Cracklin' Bullet (with butterfly wings)

Phil Collins could do "Tonight, Tonight" just to add to his Tonight collection

This might have been Neil Diamond-informed, actually: https://youtu.be/7iosnvKSBIo

what kind of voice would slide better into these layers of sound?

I get exactly the style of vocal he's aiming for and it one that would fit very well with the music, and most of his instincts regarding vocal phrasing and dynamics are very good ones - but he just doesn't have the skill to pull it off, and always somehow sounds like he's simultaneously making too much and not enough effort.

It's an odd voice. It's like an angry late teen and a scared 8 year old in the same body.

agreed, it's so perfect

corroded Gordon Gano