American things

Is that different from (non-ice) Hockey? Seems massive here in Belgium.

1. biscuits & gravy

... and I'm proud to be an American!

otm

Three Dog Night
Grateful Dead
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers
The Eagles
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band
Kiss
Boston
Stevie Ray Vaughan
The Doobie Brothers
Grand Funk Railroad
John Fogerty
J Geils Band
Foghat
Styx
Cheap Trick
REO Speedwagon
Kansas
George Thorogood & the Destroyers

there's an odd one out in that list (although it still works cos nobody likes them in their home country)

which

Foghat are British

Foghat? Ohhh, they're British?

like, literally no one cares in the UK

(and I'll be honest and say I got most of those names (incl. Foghat) from a list of 'Greatest American Bands')

Lacrosse

― S-, Wednesday, September 9, 2020 10:52 AM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

Might want to google that one

― rob, Wednesday, September 9, 2020 11:37 AM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

What am I missing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacrosse

Lacrosse is a team sport played with a lacrosse stick and a lacrosse ball. It is the oldest organized sport in North America,

International lacrosse
Further information: List of national lacrosse organizations

Lacrosse has historically been played for the most part in Canada and the United States,

It ain't no Ultimate Frisbee, brah.

Lacrosse was created long before "America" (or Canada and the United States) existed

by Native Americans though...that's very much an American thing!

The name is from French, reflecting that Europeans first observed and recorded it in French Canada, well before there was a US, as Rob notes.

If what you want to say is "lol preppy jock frat bros amirite," just say that

by Native Americans though...that's very much an American thing!

― error prone wolf syndicate (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:57 AM (nineteen minutes ago)

I am not Native American, but I have a hard time believing that they* would agree with this erasure of their cultural identity and political sovereignty.

* Obviously "they" are not a univocal monolith, but the Iroquois Nationals are called that for a reason.

If you want to make a thread cataloguing cultural practices created by the indigenous people of North America, I guess you could do that, but this is not that thread. For example, consider this post from upthread:

I mean, don't forget 23. Indigenous Genocide, but, you know.

I guess the question comes down to what "America" is. Don't think it's unreasonable to describe it geographically, as a land mass.

(true though most of the posts itt have taken the title to mean "United States" things)

In that case, is Rio de Janeiro an American thing?

In that case, again, I guess it depends on what you mean by "American."

My Uruguayan gf would probably answer yes, and bristles at the interchangeability of "U.S." and "America"

The Uruguayan States of America.

Totally cool with this exapbded definition btw: tacos al carbon? American. Samba music? American. Pierre Trudeau? American. Cali Cartel? American. Falklands war? American. Chichen Itza, the Yukon gold rush, Macchu Picchu, poutine: American things.

I guess we're just pretending the continents in this hemisphere are not called "America" w/ different modifiers

Anyway, this is obv. not the thread for that...I'm just not sure the lacrosse post is "wrong"

Hay mexicanos, norteamericanos y norte-norteamericanos.

Beringea, Fidel Castro, tomatoes, potatoes, ska, reggae, soca. American things.

Antonio Carlos Jobim, Bob Marley, Leonard Cohen, Neil Young. Americans.

(And by the way let us call out Ireland and Italy for appropriating our cuisine, and France for our smokes; you're welcome.)

what

I'm just not sure the lacrosse post is "wrong"

Because 99% of the entries in this thread are about the United States, and I'm not sure why you would pretend otherwise

I guess we're just pretending the continents in this hemisphere are not called "America" w/ different modifiers

Okay, go there if you like. The mesoamerican ball game practiced by pre-Columbian Mayans in what is now Mexico is as American as lacrosse.

(Mexico being in North America.)

Bunny Wailer and Peter Tosh - Americans? How about Oscar Hijuelos? Joni Mitchell? Frida Kahlo?

(Not to mention that there is significant controversy about how many continents there are and the divisions between them. The distinction between Europe and Asia is way more fuzzy, in fact. Is Bibi Netanyahu an Asian?)

like I said, this isn't the thread for this, it's obv. "U.S" things and a repository for Tom D. cross-Atlantic peeves...but even in that context the idea

Macchu Picchu:U.S.::lacrosse:U.S.

is just p silly. I just don't think the poster -S is so far off. Lacross has origins in North America and is HUGE in the mid-Atlantic, not so much afaik in say, Spain, or Thailand

it's also probably uniquely "American" in this context as discussed in the quid-ag thread:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/squash-lacrosse-niche-sports-ivy-league-admissions/616474/

I mean, potatoes originate in south america, but I don't think if I said "loaded baked potato skins" was a U.S. American thing anyone would bat an eye.

BTW Oscar Hijuelos was born in Manhattan

But clearly (1) this thread is meant to be US-centric and (2) the fact that Lacrosse originated as a meso-american ballgame doesn't really change the fact that modern day varsity and college lacrosse is very much a U.S. thing (as opposed to europe, asia, or even central and south america).

yeah I mean the hamburger came from Hamburg but even there it persists as a symbol of things "American"

the hamburger steak came from hamburg, the sandwich known as the hamburger - especially its iconic form as illustrated by the emoji 🍔 - is completely American in origin

Hadrian, I have no serious beef with you kinda threw down the gauntlet here with

I guess we're just pretending the continents in this hemisphere are not called "America" w/ different modifiers

Which makes me want to ask what continent Guatemala is a part of. Not a trick question. If Canada is included in what we're broadly calling "America," then so is, say, Honduras.

If we're gonna be sticklers in one direction (precolumbian French Canada counts as "America") it is reasonable to ask why, say, Mayan-era Yucatan does not.

a straightforward way to resolve this might be to just back up and say “oh I specifically meant lacrosse scholarships”

In other words

If what you want to say is "lol preppy jock frat bros amirite," just say that

xxp You're right...I wouldn't contend that it doesn't

Except Tombot I didn't meant that.

HVIII - Cool, peace

I've written and deleted a few responses, but really I'm just curious: why does it matter to you, Hadrian and man alive, that lacrosse be considered "American"? It's an important and enduring indigenous tradition—one that crosses the US/Canada border btw, so as bad as the "continental" argument YMP has shredded was, the "we meant the US after all" argument isn't perfect either—that has been lovingly borrowed/ violently appropriated/however you want to phrase it, but why then does America now get to claim ownership of it? I understand that internationally it may be perceived as such, but why let that uninformed perspective be deemed correct? Is tea a "British thing"? I'm sure to lots of people it is, but that doesn't make it true. And it's not like place names and other geographical phenomena are politically neutral or separate from the history of imperialism and colonialism. Ireland is one of the British Isles, can we call all Irish things "British"? I invite you to try that out here on ilxor.com!

Also, I don't know where everyone itt lives, and I honestly don't expect Europeans to know about all this, but imo this isn't a pedantic argument about geography or a check-in on whether or not lacrosse "feels" American. It's about colonization, cultural erasure, and the denial of indigenous sovereignty. Per the latter, the reason this is bothering me is this recent news: https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/iroquois-nationals-lacrosse-world-games-1.5717395

the hamburger steak came from hamburg, the sandwich known as the hamburger - especially its iconic form as illustrated by the emoji 🍔 - is completely American in origin

As versions of the meal have been served for over a century, its origin remains ambiguous.[4] The popular book The Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy by Hannah Glasse included a recipe in 1758 as "Hamburgh sausage", which suggested to serve it "roasted with toasted bread under it". A similar snack was also popular in Hamburg by the name "Rundstück warm" ("bread roll warm") in 1869 or earlier,[5] and supposedly eaten by many emigrants on their way to America, but may have contained roasted beefsteak rather than Frikadeller.

(but yeah ofc the miles-wide ceremonial lacrosse played by the Mohawk is probably as far afield from 20th c. lacrosse as these hamburgers are from the emoji)

can we just take it back to fluffernutter and stand your ground?

Rob, it doesn't matter to me that lacrosse is considered American. I just think it's ambiguous and slippery enough that -S's claim can't be wholly dismissed.

I hate lacrosse btw

Not really, I hate a specifically American culture around it

Personally I just content myself with wondering how much better JFK's "I am a Berliner" speech would have been if it had been made in Hamburg

Or Frankfurt

Probably funnier in Frankfurt, imo

Mayor McCheese said it first

I may have been led astray by Eddie Izzard here, but isn't "Berliner" not the German demonym for "people of Berlin" (iirc Izzard says it's a kind of doughnut?)

(I guess I've found my role on this thread)

yes Rob that’s why we laugh about the speech