Thanks, mark, that's exactly the expansion I was angling for.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 12:26 (three years ago) link
I have a hunch anyone that would immediately call for the "cancellation" of Steve Reich based on that 50 year old anecdote might also find the Daniel Pearl Foundation problematic simply for supporting Israel's right to exist and/or anti-BDS stance.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:06 (three years ago) link
OH YEAH AN ENTIRE CAREER BUILT ON CULTURAL APPROPRIATION
rmde
― trapped out the barndo (crüt), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:22 (three years ago) link
Steve Reich is the Led Zeppelin of American minimalism.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:25 (three years ago) link
Steve Reich stole Music for 18 Musicians from Spirit.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:32 (three years ago) link
The world of modern composition is almost certainly full of people with terrible views and would prefer to just not look under the bonnet in the first place but obviously this blowing up big style might help Mark sell loads more books so it's six of one really.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:43 (three years ago) link
The world of modern composition is almost certainly full of people with terrible views
Are we talking about 80 year-olds such as Reich or…?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:46 (three years ago) link
if the modern composer in question sues me i will call ilx as a character witness
― mark s, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:46 (three years ago) link
Err, 83 year-olds.
xp
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:47 (three years ago) link
otm
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:55 (three years ago) link
The discipline is filled with rockists iirc.
Seriously, even if the anecdote is true, I'm not sure it's compelling evidence of Reich being a person with terrible views. As far as his activity on record from the time is concerned, he was clearly an activist for civil rights and justice. It's a weird comment but I don't really know what to make of it and it's older than I am. I'm p sure we'd find as bad or worse if we went through e.g. the Forced Exposure or noise board archives.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:57 (three years ago) link
sund4r the "watermelon" paper i linked is i think v good on how SR was changing in approach and attitude (and possibly politics) between the mid-60s (the full-on "civil rights ally" period) and the early 70s, when he had quit the west coast for the east i think, and a specific avant-garde milieu, and was very much reconfiguring his approach to his composition -- residually still an ally no doubt but with other professional concerns now
as for the "anecdote" as everyone keeps calling it, it's the report of an encounter that consisted of more than just two sentences (this is tbf clearer in the 1977 book), and the reporter is channeling how it felt to her in context as well as the actual words used -- as i say, she is someone i trust to do this accurately
― mark s, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:04 (three years ago) link
But how can she, after 50 years, without paraphrasing?
Anyway, xpost, cancel Steve Albini.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:06 (three years ago) link
Emancipating dissonance? Talk about white privilege.
xxp P sure it meets the definition of an anecdote but downloading the 'watermelon' paper.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:08 (three years ago) link
Anyway, none of this should come as a surprise now that we've established that music theory is racist.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:10 (three years ago) link
https://youtu.be/Kr3quGh7pJA
― Maresn3st, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:24 (three years ago) link
downloading the 'watermelon' paper.
But I mean, if what it boils down to is "still an ally but with other professional concerns", that doesn't sound cancel-worthy.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:25 (three years ago) link
difft ppl boil it down to difft things based on difft evidence is how i boil it down to an extent
― mark s, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:29 (three years ago) link
Wuorinen so far was the only person of that generation who somewhat openly admitted to being on the Trump train.
― Boring, Maryland, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:37 (three years ago) link
it's gonna boilit's gonna boilit's gonna boilit's gonna boilit's gonna boilit's gonna boilit's gonna boilit's gonna boil it's gonna boilit's gonna boil it's gonna boilit's gonna boil it's gonna boilit's gonna boil it's gonna boilit's gonna boil it's gonna boilit's gonna boil
― sarahell, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:38 (three years ago) link
how exactly do you define "the world of modern composition" ?? This phrase already seems kinda problematic because obviously it/you don't mean to include all non-improvised music of the 20th century ...
― sarahell, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:43 (three years ago) link
"The world of modern composition is almost certainly full of people with terrible views"
lol, was looking up a Benjamin Britten thread earlier and it consists of two posts about paedophilia!
― calzino, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:47 (three years ago) link
the world [insert anything whatever here] is almost certainly full of ppl with terrible views
― mark s, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:52 (three years ago) link
The world of ILM excepted, of course.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:53 (three years ago) link
i couldn't possibly comment
― mark s, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:55 (three years ago) link
Not a hill I'd die on but, from all accounts I've come across, the way Britten handled the urges that troubled him was pretty brave and admirable.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:58 (three years ago) link
OK I mean the world of modern orchestral/classical/notated music then. (And why do they call is 'dance music'? You can dance to all sorts of music???!!!!)
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:31 (three years ago) link
Hey, Kendrick Lamar won a Pulitzer.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:39 (three years ago) link
lol in a piece i was writing earlier in the year i used the phrase "composed music and chart pop" and nearly got into a fight with the editor bcz he said "but isn't pop music also composed?"
"yes you're right but also literally everyone will know what i'm getting at here"
(i didn't say this and i changed it to something even more inadequate which didn't seem to bother him so everyone's the loser really)
― mark s, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:44 (three years ago) link
I like "notated music". It does mean that you include show tunes and exclude electroacoustic music on fixed media, which seems fine to me.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:46 (three years ago) link
― Boring, Maryland, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 bookmarkflaglink
Lol no way
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:47 (three years ago) link
The person with the downright worst politucs I am mutuals with and tolerate is an avant-garde pianist and teacher whom I've known on a couple of classical internet message boards I've been on. He was pro Change UK (non-Brits wondering as to what that is please don't bother).
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:50 (three years ago) link
Mutuals with on twitter...he is quite good on music, just utter thrash on anything else.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:53 (three years ago) link
Cancel pianos.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:56 (three years ago) link
Alexander Hawkins is a comrade ftr
― calzino, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:08 (three years ago) link
what about rzewski?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:10 (three years ago) link
Elitist cis white man who appropriated the struggles of POC.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:13 (three years ago) link
ilx always circles back to cardew to in the end :D
― mark s, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:27 (three years ago) link
serves imperialism iirc
― sarahell, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:27 (three years ago) link
i guess there's no way getting round the fact that 99% of people in this world (REAL ENGLAND being thisworld) who can afford either a) a piano b) to be a composerare going to be tory as fuck.
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:32 (three years ago) link
/from tory as fuck backgrounds and so prone for backsliding
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:33 (three years ago) link
plenty of poor as fuck council house families had a rented Steinway in the living room with a 50p slot on the side!
― calzino, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:41 (three years ago) link
Yeah wtf
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:53 (three years ago) link
uh, the cost of music school and "being a composer" vastly exceeds the cost of a piano ...
― sarahell, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:55 (three years ago) link
Tell it to a homeschooled composer I know named Mozart.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:58 (three years ago) link
Eh, it's true enough insofar as there is a cost to any education program and financially uncertain life choice but I don't think it requires 1% level privilege and have not heard of any evidence that people involved with new music composition are more politically conservative on average than the general population. (My anecdotal experience, since that seems to be what we're working with here, is on the contrary.)
xp cf Schoenberg
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 18:02 (three years ago) link
I love how these threads systematically bring out all the canonical, downright snooty clichés about art music. Not that it didn't have it coming, but still.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 18:03 (three years ago) link
*notated art music
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 18:04 (three years ago) link
I mean, I really don't think most people in 'this world' grew up as wealthy or well-connected as Taylor Swift or Lana del Rey.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 18:07 (three years ago) link
If it was just posh people that had pianos in the home the history of bebop would have likely been a whole lot duller perhaps? Just saying like.
― calzino, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 18:09 (three years ago) link