Whose opinions do you trust the most: Music buying public or Music Critics?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrS5HwjbsBM

At this point, I pretty much only trust algorithms. I've been training Spotify Hipster Boyfriend so long, and so hard, as to what I actually *like*, that he does get his 'made for you' and 'release radar' playlists pretty spot on, usually at least 50% stuff I am genuinely interested in.

I do sometimes enjoy reading the work of music critics, but for the most part, even if I find one who is fairly good at descriptive criticism (capturing *why* something is good, what fans use the music *for*, that sort of thing) I find them wholly useless at predictive criticism. I cannot remember the last time I read a professional critic who was as consistently good at spotting things I'd actually enjoy.

Even on ILX, I don't know that there was ever a specific user whose tastes aligned with mine - but more like, if there were specific clusters of users, that if they all agreed on an artist, then I was far more likely to check that artist out. (Granted, this was, like, a decade ago, and parts of the clusters have now gone.)

I don't think there *is* a general ILM hive mind; it is very balkanised now, more than it has ever been in my 2-decade experience of ILM and there are probably now distinct but different clusters whose predictive criticism might be good for their specialised corner. (The year-end polls used to be fantastic at winkling out both excellent tracks, and who comprised the reliable clusters - but they have been slipping in recent times.)

The fantastic thing I have found with Spotify Hipster Boyfriend, is that the algorithms genuinely *are* trainable, that there is a way to say "never play me this again" or "always show me stuff like this" - and that the algorithm's ego doesn't get in the way.

Many times, I have had experiences with people who have thought of themselves as ~enthusiastic music sharers~ who just wanted to turn all their friends on to new stuff. But my overwhelming experience with these guys was that it was almost always about sharing *their* taste in music, and almost never about actually paying attention to what *you* liked or looked for in music.

After multiple experiences, with different people in different spaces (yes, including ILM) - where someone would constantly push new music on me, and it was often done in a superficially friendly and excited way, you know "aw, check this out!" and "this is amazing, you gotta hear it!" - but there was a point where it wasn't reciprocal. And if it would reach a point where my preferences were not respected - if I would flat out say, "I really don't like Genre X" or "please, no more of Y, it's just not for Branwells" and they would protest "ah, you're just ~prejudiced against metal~!!!" or whatever, and try to push past my preferences, that really did not bode well for music *sharing*.

Especially if, when I tried to share stuff that I was really digging, be it girl groups or electro-pop or whatever, I would just meet a blank wall of "I just don't like that stuff." Like - OK, you're allowed to have preferences, and "just not like" entire genres, but I'm not? In that case, I am no longer taking reccommendations from you. Through therapy, I've learned that that kind of "my preferences count; yours don't" behaviour doesn't bode well for friendships in general.

But in terms of deciding whose opinions to trust on music, it's a real deciding factor.

(So voted "general public" because that is more algorithmic, as algorithms are ~made by people~)

that there is a way to say "never play me this again"

How I wish I could do that on Spotify. I keep getting recommendations for artists I don't like.

A simple click on a 'please dont recommend this artist or album again' button would be amazing.

Huh, that's weird. I know there used to be such a button, because I have definitely noped out on several artists.

But now I go into the app to look for it, I can't seem to find it? Man, that would suck if they took that facility away, because it was so incredibly useful.

(e.g. I love Neubauten, but I never ever want to hear anything by Kick Knave, at all, ever, and I managed to successfully banish him from Spotify.)

Ah, it looks like they've changed it. There is now a "verboten" symbol to the right of the album name in radio stations, but it only bans the specific song, rather than the entire artist.

Is that the phone app or desktop? I only ever use the desktop app (windows) and was unaware of any features like that.

Just checked the desktop app and looked at my discover weekly. There is indeed an icon there beside each song and if i click on it,then it gives me 2 options
I dont like this song
I dont like *insert band name*

Cheers! I had no idea

I do think 'Toxic' is fine for what it is

Agree with "fine for what it is" but the Bollywood quote is the most interesting thing about it imo.

tbh I wasn't expecting a re-run of the 99/00 Britney wars when I started this poll.

Also, I think Toxic is the best Britney single imo.

I asked you what you were expecting!

Also, this isn't war.

Honestly, neither is of much significance to me. People sharing music they dig, word of mouth, record shops/record shop owners and employees I trust, all have mattered a lot more to me than criticism per se or sales.

I mean, I don't think Britney is off-topic in a thread on "Pop loving music buying public vs Music writers" where you "want to hear the opinions of actual poptimist critics on whether they are a better authority on pop music than the general public inc kids who buy it", considering she was the core pop figure at the inception of poptimism.

Can't remember the last time I read a piece of music criticism, so I guess the public by default but some combo of artists sharing artists, friends, ILM threads, etc..

Reviews the length of pitchfork reviews et al are way too long for me. I guess some people enjoy reading them as an artform. Give me a quick blurb instead. Otherwise I feel like I'm reading someone's LiveJournal or academic essay.

I don't see a meaningful difference between what is v popular and critically acclaimed pop.

Look at end of year track lists across the last decade. 'Get Lucky', 'Blurred Lines', 'Trap Queen', 'Work, 'Old Town Road', 'Bad Guy' - big hits, list-toppers (even if some fell out of favour since).

Plenty of examples where most critics and most fans align on what is the best pop, even if other mega-streamed acts are ignored or dismissed by most critics.

I thought blurred lines was reviled from the off?

People who are paid to write about freebies vs. people who fork out their hard-earned cash

HI DERE! Has this been resolved yet?

I already answered the question.

I thought blurred lines was reviled from the off?

#5 single in the 2013 Pazz & Jop: https://www.villagevoice.com/2014/01/15/the-village-voices-pazz-jop-critics-poll-top-10-singles-by-year-1979-2013/

It’s a great single

That Pazz and Jop Top Ten summary is pretty nice, somehow never saw that.

At this point, I pretty much only trust algorithms. I've been training Spotify Hipster Boyfriend so long, and so hard, as to what I actually *like*, that he does get his 'made for you' and 'release radar' playlists pretty spot on, usually at least 50% stuff I am genuinely interested in.
― Extractor Fan (Branwell with an N), Friday, September 4, 2020 9:41 AM (two weeks ago)

That's the theory, but for every brilliant suggestion fueled by state-of-the-art awesome AI technology, there's five generic no-hopers who bypass all that fancy AI and just buy their way into your 'made for you' and 'release radar', which makes listening to those playlist a mostly tedious experience for me, and it's only getting worse.

Back when there really were career music critics who could write long, nuanced stuff then they held greatest sway over me. Wasn't until '86 ish that I looked to get a critic's recommendation verified by someone else before buying. These days I will take a personal recommendation over any writers still on the circuit other than maybe Richard Williams and Alex Ross.

xp

as far as I can tell, Release Radar is there to give you new releases that involve artists that you are following on Spotify. I happen to follow a huge number of artists in current genres like afropop and dancehall, where people drop new tracks all the time and do lots of features, so I get a handsome 200, mostly* relevant, ones each week, of which a small fraction is carried over from the previous week. (there’s always a few non-relevant releases by artists that share the same name with someone I’m following - no biggie, shit happens).

I’m not sure, but I assume that if you’re following a limited number of artists and/or ones that are not in the habit of releasing new material regularly, Spotify fills up your quota with stuff through its algorithms.

Wait, what, 200? I get 30, and don’t think I could handle 200 tbh

neither can I!

...but do keep in mind that the large majority of these are singles, not multi-track albums

It certainly helps to follow artists, but it also just works off stuff you have merely liked or added to a playlist.

(One problem I have is, I've made a couple of classical playlists - and classical tracks tend to list composer, orchestra, conductor and any soloists in the artist, so you can end up with anything by any of these randos turning up in your suggestions.)

If there's stuff that persistently turns up that you do not want to hear, just keep hitting 'do not play this artist' until they go away. I don't know that the 'buy your way onto playlists' thing actually works that way. I was speaking quite a lot earlier this year, to the management of a band who were trying to push their new album. You can certainly pay to push your stuff higher to people who have already expressed some kind of interest in that band (following, liking, adding to playlists) but targeting people who liked adjacent stuff was surprisingly difficult.

Finally located that Do Not Play button, thanks

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I VOTED

Same. Went with the Critical Establishment in the end, and I already regret it.

Shame on you

My answer is B and C (And yes, I know there isn't a C)

C = diehard music fans who might as well be critics but don't write

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

65 music critics (-1 aka yours truly) can't be wrong.

Raymond Cummings otm

65 music critics (-1 aka yours truly) can't be wrong.

so some turkeys dont vote for christmas then

One monkey don't stop no show.

Ha ha god bless you.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/schmidtt/rolling-stones-500-worst-reviews-of-all-time-work-in-progress/13/p

Wow