i only trust tim gane, basically.
― Deflatormouse, Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:03 (three years ago) link
250 Coastal Elite Media People/Carly Rae Jepsen Fans Can Be Wrong
― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 2, 2020 5:11 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
new board description?
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:07 (three years ago) link
I fully trust my wonderful judgment.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:09 (three years ago) link
Does anyone here listen to Carly Rae Jepsen regularly because of her sustained critical praise, or eschew Post Malone because of his lack of same, or listen extensively to Drake despite disliking his music because of their inherent trust in the wisdom of crowds?I dunno? But the point that some pop artists are more critically praised than they are commercially successful, and vice-versa for others, seems fairly sound.
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:12 (three years ago) link
Most critics are too narrowly interested in music that is "good" to the exclusion of music that is not "good" but is rewarding or interesting in some other way to be of any use to me.
― Deflatormouse, Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:13 (three years ago) link
I, too, trust your judgment, Ned.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:15 (three years ago) link
I trust pomenitul's judgment of Ned
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:35 (three years ago) link
I dunno? But the point that some pop artists are more critically praised than they are commercially successful, and vice-versa for others, seems fairly sound.
truly, an oddity specific to pop music only, and not to any other forms of music, writing, art, performance, cuisine or athletic performance
― erratic wolf angular guitarist (sic), Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:45 (three years ago) link
So you’ve shifted from arguing that the phenomenon doesn’t exist to that it’s universal? lol
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Thursday, 3 September 2020 03:57 (three years ago) link
Fashion shoots with Beck and HansonCourtney Love, and Marilyn MansonYou're all fakesRun to your mansionsCome aroundWe'll kick your ass in
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 3 September 2020 04:07 (three years ago) link
So back to the Motor-League with me before I’m forced to face the wrath of a well-heeled buying public who live vicariously through tortured-artist college-rock and floor-punching macho pabulum
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 3 September 2020 04:17 (three years ago) link
I just asked Kerr who he was talking about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
― erratic wolf angular guitarist (sic), Thursday, 3 September 2020 04:17 (three years ago) link
the music buying public for me means people's real connection to music, not as filtered through adverts, lifestyle journalism, etc. but as something that genuinely gives them joy. As far as opinions go, that's the only standard you can trust. I don't look to music critics for their superior opinions, just good writing.
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 23:11 (yesterday) link
The first sentence of this post strikes me as a false dichotomy. All enjoyment is filtered. Just because "the music buying public" don't necessarily appreciate the processes that result in them stumbling upon the the music that "genuinely gives them joy", or which have shaped their taste such that they're in a position to experience "genuine" joy from that particular music, doesn't make their taste less mediated.
Or in other words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj8mHwvFxMc
― Tim F, Thursday, 3 September 2020 05:28 (three years ago) link
Never trust anyone least of all yourself
― saer, Thursday, 3 September 2020 05:36 (three years ago) link
i would never trust any musician who would allow me to listen to their music
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 3 September 2020 05:42 (three years ago) link
How much is left of the "music buying public", in this era of streaming?
― Siegbran, Thursday, 3 September 2020 07:37 (three years ago) link
Who Do I Trust? Me. That's Who.
― CP Radio Gorgeous (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 3 September 2020 07:40 (three years ago) link
Tim F - Yes, of course I appreciate that much of people's experience is mediated in some way. The video you've chosen is an interesting example, though - as someone who has no stake in fashion I would be tempted of course to take the "expert" opinion over the amateur, and seeing the processes and history behind what looks like an unimportant aesthetic choice is interesting - however, I do not believe that makes her opinion *better* or more trustworthy. Better at surviving in the commercial world of fashion, yes of course, but not in terms of actual enjoyment of clothes.
We aren't talking about the public en masse, judging by chart placings or youtube streams or whatever - those are so muddied by external factors as to make them useless, that should be clear to anyone. But if a critic's job is to "rate" music, give it a score, judge its worthiness or whatever (I do not think this should be their job, to be clear) then I do not find that any less mediated than the opinion of any random member of the public, in fact I find it to be more mediated.
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 3 September 2020 10:06 (three years ago) link
It's been a while since I felt caught out by something being really popular that it turns out I also like when I finally hear it.
― nashwan, Thursday, 3 September 2020 10:18 (three years ago) link
Good morning! What're y'all on about?
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 September 2020 10:20 (three years ago) link
I dunno, I've lost track.
― Oor Neechy, Thursday, 3 September 2020 12:27 (three years ago) link
Whether Ned can be trusted. (I'm not so sure myself.)
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 3 September 2020 13:12 (three years ago) link
Tim F otm.
― Hit It And Quit It Sideways (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 3 September 2020 13:25 (three years ago) link
Whether Ned can be trusted. (I'm not so sure myself.)― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r),
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r),
that can be the follow up poll
― Oor Neechy, Thursday, 3 September 2020 13:48 (three years ago) link
Where is the NedAnd can he be trustedSearching for lilac in neckwareAnd sweet haberdashery
― Hit It And Quit It Sideways (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 3 September 2020 13:53 (three years ago) link
great I've killed another thread
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 3 September 2020 15:09 (three years ago) link
Truly this is all a subject for contemplation.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 3 September 2020 15:10 (three years ago) link
this one needs killing tbf, sorry neechy lol
― imago, Thursday, 3 September 2020 15:17 (three years ago) link
At least we flushed Ned out of his hidey-hole before the ceremonial sacrifice.
― Hit It And Quit It Sideways (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 3 September 2020 15:23 (three years ago) link
The Wicker Ned.
― Hit It And Quit It Sideways (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 3 September 2020 15:51 (three years ago) link
Ahem, sorry. In any case, as has been stated upthread, the original post is a Classic - or Dud! - false binary/false dichotomy, which was settled long ago by dueling binaural microphones in the hands of Lou Reed and Lester Bangs.
― Hit It And Quit It Sideways (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 3 September 2020 16:03 (three years ago) link
i can't listen to an album until I already know exactly how I'm supposed to feel about it the moment I put it on― Neanderthal, Wednesday, September 2, 2020 4:25 PM
― Neanderthal, Wednesday, September 2, 2020 4:25 PM
sorry to pop back in without reading anything else, but the satire of this comment is so spot-on. this is exactly how it feels sometimes and i hate it. it's exactly why i'm usually more critical of the criticism than i am the actual music.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Thursday, 3 September 2020 16:58 (three years ago) link
anyway. as you were.
I found myself more susceptible to it with pop or hip-hop music, where by posting here or reading the internet, I was bound to read or hear someone's take on it, and then I'm often unwittingly listening for what the author told me to listen for rather than going in expectation-free. or it discouraged me from 'wasting' 75 minutes listening to an album that maybe I actually find out later that I liked.
I do love that metal kind of affords that freedom because yeah, we have 'metal press', but outside of Decibel and a few big blogs, people pay it less mind. PItchfork's metal reviews I barely read because I find I never agree with them, even though I think that Grayson chap was doing a good job with the ones he wrote.
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 3 September 2020 18:21 (three years ago) link
Tbf, Neechy, the OP does seem like it could use clarification, esp regarding what you mean by "trust" - do you just mean "whose recommendations are you most likely to seek out?" Or something broader, like "how should greatness be judged - would the canon be better if it were based on sales certifications or Acclaimed Music rankings?" Are we meant to consider the public as a whole vs critical consensus in the aggregate? Or is this more about individual critics or members of the public?
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 3 September 2020 18:24 (three years ago) link
My favorite pop track of the year (so far) "peaked at number 30 on the US Billboard Hot 100 (and) was ranked as the 12th best song of 2020 by Billboard"... not sure my particular tastes are too closely aligned with either critics or the public.
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Thursday, 3 September 2020 18:56 (three years ago) link
(OTOH, my favorite pop artist - Ariana - is both commercially successful and (largely) critically acclaimed, so I can't really complain on either score.)
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:10 (three years ago) link
the OP does seem like it could use clarification, esp regarding what you mean by "trust" - do you just mean "whose recommendations are you most likely to seek out?" Or something broader, like "how should greatness be judged - would the canon be better if it were based on sales certifications or Acclaimed Music rankings?" Are we meant to consider the public as a whole vs critical consensus in the aggregate? Or is this more about individual critics or members of the public?
Doesn't really matter how one frames the question as ILM posters, can and will, will interpret it whatever way they want to anyway!
― Oor Neechy, Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:15 (three years ago) link
im more interested in the written answer than the result of the poll. That's just to tie it all up at the end of discussion really.
But I do want to hear the opinions of actual poptimist critics on whether they are a better authority on pop music than the general public inc kids who buy it
― Oor Neechy, Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:22 (three years ago) link
Or was poptimism just about changing music criticism from rock to pop music instead? (which I'm sure wasn't the original intention)
― Oor Neechy, Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:23 (three years ago) link
You must have had something in mind, though?
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:24 (three years ago) link
Embracing one's own death as an author is an interesting approach, though.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:25 (three years ago) link
would like to contribute a bit more here, unfortunately am busy over mumsnet telling them their opinions on parenting are a load of rubbish
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:33 (three years ago) link
Not everyone on ILM is or ever has been a music writer
― Oor Neechy, Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:57 (three years ago) link
That is certainly true. I myself, for example, although I did make some comedy answering machine messages back in the day before Biz began.
― Hit It And Quit It Sideways (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 3 September 2020 19:59 (three years ago) link
well I myself sold 5 or 6 fanzines in the 90s, so who am i to judge anyway
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 3 September 2020 20:00 (three years ago) link
i think a much more accurate model rn is something like "algorithmic worlds", like "facebook alternative reality conservative users" vs "npr people" where a bunch of content all linked together forms one digital tribe or another.
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Thursday, 3 September 2020 20:19 (three years ago) link
Pop loving music writers
― nashwan, Thursday, 3 September 2020 20:56 (three years ago) link
if more of these so-called critics would acknowledge the importance of whatever it is i give a shit about then there'd be no need for this question
― A Short Film About Scampoes (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 September 2020 21:04 (three years ago) link
Ok Brendan
― Oor Neechy, Friday, 4 September 2020 00:50 (three years ago) link
Wow
― My Little Red Buchla (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 August 2022 11:16 (one year ago) link