Whose opinions do you trust the most: Music buying public or Music Critics?

Its all about sharing the cultural moment innit

Right, exactly ums. If a critic's description intrigues me I give it a quick listen. Same thing with popular stuff, really, tho usually I'm not motivated to give anything a listen til critics are fawning over it.

https://i.imgur.com/alN1kkK.jpg

250 Coastal Elite Media People/Carly Rae Jepsen Fans Can Be Wrong

Name whom? Critics who praise Carly Rae Jepsen? She had the #3 album in the 2015 Pazz & Jop critics' poll. You can see a list of critics who voted for it halfway down this page: http://furia.com/pjs/artist_8041.html

Stephen Bush also has Post Malone on his ballot.

Alex Ostroff also has Drake on his ballot.

Laur Jackson also had Drake on that ballot, and here she is going long on him:
https://www.theawl.com/2016/01/drakes-playground/

Renato Pagnani had Drake on his ballot twice, and had earlier named him as his #1 of 2013:
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/192-my-year-in-music-renato-pagnani/

I bet clicking on some more would further dispel the alleged division, but I'm going to scrub a bathtub.

Idk what point you're making? Seems pretty empirically evident that there are critically celebrated 'pop' artists whose actual popularity is dwarfed by that of other artists who receive a lower level of critical acclaim. Pointing out that there are individual critics who rate both doesn't really disprove that.

I mean, yeah, this does suggest less acclaim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beerbongs_%26_Bentleys#Critical_reception . The album didn't even make P&J, nor did the hit single "Rockstar".

Critics who fete modern symphonic composers or avant-garde and noise artists probably aren't praising Ed Sheeran and Post Malone either, but starting a thread to say so wouldn't tell us anything about any of the musicians in questions, or their work

but they’re... comparing pop artists to pop artists, and their respective critical reception

Does anyone here listen to Carly Rae Jepsen regularly because of her sustained critical praise, or eschew Post Malone because of his lack of same, or listen extensively to Drake despite disliking his music because of their inherent trust in the wisdom of crowds?

uh, musicians who make music i like and to an extent, professional record collectors.

i only trust tim gane, basically.

250 Coastal Elite Media People/Carly Rae Jepsen Fans Can Be Wrong

― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 2, 2020 5:11 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

new board description?

I fully trust my wonderful judgment.

Does anyone here listen to Carly Rae Jepsen regularly because of her sustained critical praise, or eschew Post Malone because of his lack of same, or listen extensively to Drake despite disliking his music because of their inherent trust in the wisdom of crowds?

I dunno? But the point that some pop artists are more critically praised than they are commercially successful, and vice-versa for others, seems fairly sound.

Most critics are too narrowly interested in music that is "good" to the exclusion of music that is not "good" but is rewarding or interesting in some other way to be of any use to me.

I fully trust my wonderful judgment.

I, too, trust your judgment, Ned.

I trust pomenitul's judgment of Ned

I dunno? But the point that some pop artists are more critically praised than they are commercially successful, and vice-versa for others, seems fairly sound.

truly, an oddity specific to pop music only, and not to any other forms of music, writing, art, performance, cuisine or athletic performance

So you’ve shifted from arguing that the phenomenon doesn’t exist to that it’s universal? lol

Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

So back to the Motor-League with me
before I’m forced to face the wrath of a well-heeled buying public
who live vicariously through
tortured-artist college-rock and floor-punching macho pabulum

So you’ve shifted from arguing that the phenomenon doesn’t exist to that it’s universal? lol

I just asked Kerr who he was talking about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

the music buying public for me means people's real connection to music, not as filtered through adverts, lifestyle journalism, etc. but as something that genuinely gives them joy. As far as opinions go, that's the only standard you can trust. I don't look to music critics for their superior opinions, just good writing.

― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 23:11 (yesterday) link

The first sentence of this post strikes me as a false dichotomy. All enjoyment is filtered. Just because "the music buying public" don't necessarily appreciate the processes that result in them stumbling upon the the music that "genuinely gives them joy", or which have shaped their taste such that they're in a position to experience "genuine" joy from that particular music, doesn't make their taste less mediated.

Or in other words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj8mHwvFxMc

Never trust anyone least of all yourself

i would never trust any musician who would allow me to listen to their music

How much is left of the "music buying public", in this era of streaming?

Who Do I Trust? Me. That's Who.

Tim F - Yes, of course I appreciate that much of people's experience is mediated in some way. The video you've chosen is an interesting example, though - as someone who has no stake in fashion I would be tempted of course to take the "expert" opinion over the amateur, and seeing the processes and history behind what looks like an unimportant aesthetic choice is interesting - however, I do not believe that makes her opinion *better* or more trustworthy. Better at surviving in the commercial world of fashion, yes of course, but not in terms of actual enjoyment of clothes.

We aren't talking about the public en masse, judging by chart placings or youtube streams or whatever - those are so muddied by external factors as to make them useless, that should be clear to anyone. But if a critic's job is to "rate" music, give it a score, judge its worthiness or whatever (I do not think this should be their job, to be clear) then I do not find that any less mediated than the opinion of any random member of the public, in fact I find it to be more mediated.

It's been a while since I felt caught out by something being really popular that it turns out I also like when I finally hear it.

Good morning! What're y'all on about?

I dunno, I've lost track.

Whether Ned can be trusted. (I'm not so sure myself.)

Tim F otm.

Whether Ned can be trusted. (I'm not so sure myself.)

― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r),

that can be the follow up poll

Where is the Ned
And can he be trusted
Searching for lilac in neckware
And sweet haberdashery

great I've killed another thread

Truly this is all a subject for contemplation.

this one needs killing tbf, sorry neechy lol

At least we flushed Ned out of his hidey-hole before the ceremonial sacrifice.

The Wicker Ned.

Ahem, sorry. In any case, as has been stated upthread, the original post is a Classic - or Dud! - false binary/false dichotomy, which was settled long ago by dueling binaural microphones in the hands of Lou Reed and Lester Bangs.

i can't listen to an album until I already know exactly how I'm supposed to feel about it the moment I put it on

― Neanderthal, Wednesday, September 2, 2020 4:25 PM

sorry to pop back in without reading anything else, but the satire of this comment is so spot-on. this is exactly how it feels sometimes and i hate it. it's exactly why i'm usually more critical of the criticism than i am the actual music.

anyway. as you were.

I found myself more susceptible to it with pop or hip-hop music, where by posting here or reading the internet, I was bound to read or hear someone's take on it, and then I'm often unwittingly listening for what the author told me to listen for rather than going in expectation-free. or it discouraged me from 'wasting' 75 minutes listening to an album that maybe I actually find out later that I liked.

I do love that metal kind of affords that freedom because yeah, we have 'metal press', but outside of Decibel and a few big blogs, people pay it less mind. PItchfork's metal reviews I barely read because I find I never agree with them, even though I think that Grayson chap was doing a good job with the ones he wrote.

Tbf, Neechy, the OP does seem like it could use clarification, esp regarding what you mean by "trust" - do you just mean "whose recommendations are you most likely to seek out?" Or something broader, like "how should greatness be judged - would the canon be better if it were based on sales certifications or Acclaimed Music rankings?" Are we meant to consider the public as a whole vs critical consensus in the aggregate? Or is this more about individual critics or members of the public?

My favorite pop track of the year (so far) "peaked at number 30 on the US Billboard Hot 100 (and) was ranked as the 12th best song of 2020 by Billboard"... not sure my particular tastes are too closely aligned with either critics or the public.

(OTOH, my favorite pop artist - Ariana - is both commercially successful and (largely) critically acclaimed, so I can't really complain on either score.)

the OP does seem like it could use clarification, esp regarding what you mean by "trust" - do you just mean "whose recommendations are you most likely to seek out?" Or something broader, like "how should greatness be judged - would the canon be better if it were based on sales certifications or Acclaimed Music rankings?" Are we meant to consider the public as a whole vs critical consensus in the aggregate? Or is this more about individual critics or members of the public?

Doesn't really matter how one frames the question as ILM posters, can and will, will interpret it whatever way they want to anyway!

im more interested in the written answer than the result of the poll. That's just to tie it all up at the end of discussion really.

But I do want to hear the opinions of actual poptimist critics on whether they are a better authority on pop music than the general public inc kids who buy it

I VOTED

Same. Went with the Critical Establishment in the end, and I already regret it.

Shame on you

My answer is B and C (And yes, I know there isn't a C)

C = diehard music fans who might as well be critics but don't write

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

65 music critics (-1 aka yours truly) can't be wrong.

Raymond Cummings otm

65 music critics (-1 aka yours truly) can't be wrong.

so some turkeys dont vote for christmas then

One monkey don't stop no show.

Ha ha god bless you.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/schmidtt/rolling-stones-500-worst-reviews-of-all-time-work-in-progress/13/p

Wow