Thread of What Is Fascism And Is Donald Trump A Fascist

The latter I know, but has the former always brandished the equivalents of ARs? The kinds of weapons that demand the police up their firepower? Was this true in the '70s?

See above: prior to 1986, you could buy an M-16 (rather than an AR) for the price of a $200 tax stamp. Ruby Ridge and Tim McVeigh and the militia movement were all tied into a world of people trading 'heavy' arms and explosives.

It's not just assault rifles, though, the shift in police sidearms from a 6-round .38 revolver to 15-18 rounds of 9mm or .40 is in direct response to the kind of pistols civilians have access to.

xps Iraqi IEDs circa 2005 were based on military ordnance, often artillery shells, not home-brewed explosives in some cellar. The improvisation was in their detonation devices, usually triggered by pagers or cell phones, and the tactics around their use.

Josh in Chicago, when the yearly 'save the south African farmers' rally used to happen at the capitol in California, the people who would go to counter demonstrate were often told to 'ignore the Nazis, ignore them and they'll go away,' but the counter-demonstrators knew that they wouldn't, and that they were a force that was actively growing and recruiting.

In 2016, a bunch of counter-demonstrators were stabbed and nearly died because of wounds given them by fascists, and it came out later that the CHP, among other police forces, was coordinating with the fascists.

This sort of thing happens a lot more often than you think.

imo Trump does not actually have a coherent ideology (whereas most memorable fascists adhered very closely to the ideology in which they explicitly believed, the ideology of fascism), but I'd be comfortable classifying him as a berzerker fascist because he says shit that's right in line with fascist governance -- national registry of Muslims, closing mosques, his obsession with national strength & power -- not security and robust health, but "beat the other guy" strength. so, in the imaginary world where he gets elected, he might well govern like a fascist, and he's certainly said plenty of fascist things.

but he probably couldn't, himself, provide any definition whatsoever of fascism. a fascist, however wrongheadedly, believes he is doing good for his nation. Trump's pathology is messier.

OTOH it's really fine to call him a fascist because calling assholes fascists is a time-honored tradition and we're not all fedora-sporting EXCUSE ME THAT'S NOT WHAT THE WORD MEANS bores

― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, December 23, 2015 9:03 AM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

I have been OTM in this thread except for the rather sad bit about 'the imaginary world in which he gets elected'

:(

I love when Joan Crawford unexpectedly divebombs into my internet life in the last half hour.

Interesting, most interesting:

If you type in on Twitter: 'Q Jim Watkins' you'll see how the true owner of Q got doxed recently. Q . pub, Q-map/Q-anon is tied to current 8chan owner Jim Watkins. He's known for escaping America to the Philippines after suggesting that 8chan would be a safe-haven for: 'Peadophiles.' He's a rampant conspiracy theorist. His IP not only tied to Q-anon it's also tied to a obscure Twitter knock-off site that's popular with White-Supremacists called GAB and also links to The Daily Stormer which is a Neo-Nazi: 'news' site. Jim Watkins is Q and it's a essentially a viral front solely dedicated to spreading anti-Semitism as well as white supremacy online through various social media platforms.

https://t.co/gsSunGKc8D pic.twitter.com/ejHxQwy02H

— 🎀💧⚖️🌱 Tamara IAmAntifa (@tamarafurey) August 25, 2020

Nice. You just proved it.

Oh my God.

This is not a drill people. Jim Watkins owns QMAP . PUB.@travis_view @nezumi_ningen @julianfeeld @dappergander @PokerPolitics please look. This is a big deal.

The main person who could challenge his power over Q has been neutralized. https://t.co/DpWzi3C0N8 pic.twitter.com/7OUfPW5UUl

— Fredrick Brennan (@HW_BEAT_THAT) August 23, 2020

That AS hosts Dailystormer as well. pic.twitter.com/EHQt8MeWr9

— B̤̿it̺̕B͓̚ur͍̒neȑ🔥 🅱itty🅱uddy (@bitburner) August 25, 2020

From: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/ijkbrd/twitter_removes_qanon_supporters_false_claim/g3eio0e/

I think the Atlantic piece on Q from a couple weeks ago came close to suggesting the same thing

So is no one going to discuss the facial hair situation there?

Mustache but no beard = Errol Flynn, David Niven, Clark Gable. 'Sup. You're cool.

Beard but no mustache = Abe Lincoln, C. Everett Koop, Amish dudes. Uh, weird flex but ok.

Mustache and sideburns but no beard = on what fucking planet is this even acceptable?

Fash planet, obv.

Makes sense that it was a scheme to spread antisemitism. The whole structure of the theory was deeply antisemitic.

Feel sick honestly. How many random boomers were roped into this?

cool, the guy my mom's friends get their information from

someone beat the living shit out of him

'I understand they like me very much'.

he has ruined so many fucking lives

I remember this guy being in the news after the christchurch shooting

Fucking asshole

Did republican leaders do anything, at any point, to discourage this?

Of course not. Fuck them, and fuck Duterte, too, for harbouring him.

Yeah I’ve gone right off duterte

Good luck getting the Q toothpaste back in the Q tube. When you have to use digital sleuthing to "prove" that the source of an on-its-face utterly ridiculous batshit conspiracy theory is spreading an on-its-face utterly ridiculous batshit conspiracy theory, the battle is probably already lost. Because if people are willing to buy into an on-its-face utterly ridiculous batshit conspiracy theory in the first place, why does it matter where it came from? Q might as well be talking about human souls trapped in a volcano by aliens millions of years ago.

Per my post from yesterday, I think some of you kinda misconstrued its gist, but by repeatedly telling me that right wingers have always been around and have always been violent and have always had the tacit support of law enforcement (none of which comes as news to me) you've essentially answered my question. What can be done about all these protestors and counter-protestors showing up with assault weapons? Nothing. That'll sure help me sleep better.

has this actually resolved, though? i know it's inherently confusing "news" and may be hard to confirm for traditional news outlets? just have a sinking feeling that in 2 weeks nothing at all will have changed

xp

I think they should just post his weaselly face everywhere with the caption “Q REVEALED.” It seems like this is good evidence, he used his platform and money to help the conspiracy grow and rope people into an antisemitic ideology. Whether he posted the first Q post or whatever seems irrelevant.

I’m livid at how stupid and hateful america is right now. This gross racist who hosted a messageboard for pedophiles exerted massive influence over thousands of voters at least.

If it's a tangle of conspiracy theories anyway, it can't hurt to add "this asshole is behind it all" to the pile.

And the president approved of it. Hell.

This is hell.

Josh, I did offer some solutions. And no one said anything about them.

To be honest, I was kind of surprised that no one said anything about one of the last points I made, which made perhaps too oblique reference to the idea that leftists and progressives of all stripes should be arming themselves.

Yeah i am never owning a gun

That's fine. But I can tell you some stories about living in Trump country as a queer man whose partner is brown, and you will understand my stance on the issue a lot better, and that is:

These people want to kill us.

We will not let them.

What are the left's chances of winning another civil war?

This post purports to be a paste of one of the originators of the whole thing: https://med✧✧✧.c✧✧✧@dan✧✧✧.e✧.morri✧✧✧/the-first-q-e2b8f389d533

Not sure if it was posted here or not but the LA mag longread was also very good.

pomenitul, i'm sorry to say that i think it's slim to none.

xps

i feel you on all of that, treesh. i know you know this, but this Q + racism + trump thing isn't new - we're living through the continued aftermath of people and organizations like father coughlin and the john birch society. the potent mix of conspiracy and racism - it's evergreen because it's a way to provide an "answer" to the world's problems by attributing them to mysterious forces and evil actors who of course can't be directly confronted. it provides an answer to people who think there can be a simple answer to the world's problems. fish in a barrel.

i don't blame you at all for feeling anguished by it - i do too. on my good days i remember that a lot of other people have fought against this shit, and that these coming months are more important than ever to not get overwhelmed by it.

Yeah, I'm not buying a gun. That's a reaction, not a solution. And I guess, xpost, you mean "increasing spending to schools, getting the right textbooks and teachers into those schools, enforcing non-segregation laws in communities and schools, etc." as solutions? Sure, but like lots of things those are indeed really long term solutions to long term problems. Like, several decades/generations, and that's with sustained support they absolutely will not get. And "start packing" is not really a "solution" either, not least because it requires other counties to offer an invite first. The short term problem of heavily armed and trained right wingers seems to require a more short term response beyond "arm yourself," because that's tantamount to a call for civil war. Which ... could it happen? I guess. I dunno what it would look like, though. Possibly not that different than what we're looking at right now.

it certainly won't be pitched battles of armies in fields

To be clear, my "start packing" was meant as, "get yourself a weapon."

Thinking I needed to start packing would be the final sign it was time for me to start packing.

I would probably kill myself if I owned a gun, so yeah good idea actuallt

"I fear for my safety because of these dangerous people, thus I'm going to buy a gun" is the exact thinking that has lead to US being oversaturated with guns. No thanks.

God just came to me in a vision and said "having this convo for the 80th time will not change anyone's mind"

Hearing the voice of God in a vision telling you to do things is also probably at fault for a lot of the things wrong in this country, too.

i have gone from being completely anti-gun to somewhat neutral after reading octavia butler. however i would have to be a more emotionally stable person to ever own a gun and i'm pretty sure that will never happen, so it's a no for me (also i'm white with a white partner so that mitigates the necessity somewhat). i would like to take some self-defense and/or fighting classes at some point.

I feel like if we've gotten to the point where I need to use a gun, you might as well just kill me. I'm of no use in that world.

i do think there's some value in knowing people "on your side" who are very level-headed and grounded gun owners. in general i think we should be connecting with more people who are anti-fascist and building the kind of support networks where person a is good at something, person b is good at something else, etc.

i have seen a bunch of left-leaning people over the last year concede that either they own a gun, they're thinking about it, or they're cool with other people owning guns now or at least understand it.

i guess i've stated my own opinion on that a million times, so there's no point in saying the same thing

what a shitty world tho

table what would be gained by leftists buying guns and learning how to load them, clean them and hit targets with them?

presumably the idea would be readiness in the face of whatever horrors are to come, not so much active aggression