What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

xp 100% I am assuming that, of the people who see Ocasio-Cortez as an ideological enemy, which is most decidedly not all Democrats.

Pete Buttigieg? I like the guy
Now there's a statement I never expected to see on ILX.

Oh I've been there.

And Buttigieg! What about my man Buttigieg?!

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:11 PM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink

as the color demographics continue to change, I expect a heavy push on the right to court the (white, well-dressed) gay community, "at least they get married"
i cannot imagine a world where they do not pretend to pretend that a four week abortion is not murdering babies though

I'm actually happy to see it. Even the pro-Biden stuff round here got tiresome.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 24, 2020 6:47 PM (nine minutes ago)

it’s tiresome because it’s so unconvincingly half-hearted, people talking themselves into defending this guy (on a message board....) they obviously don’t even like but are so weary from hearing right wing BS about they’ve just resigned themselves to supporting him. I mean there are a couple people who genuinely like him but mostly it’s just muscle memory

I disagree about harris being a poor politician btw, she’s clearly an excellent politician in the sense that she is shrewd, knows how to make connections, work behind the scenes, etc. she’s boring as fuck and obviously believes in nothing which makes it tougher in a presidential race where there are more options and the scrutiny is intensified. the last couple of years have been a perfect example of this: her presidential campaign crashed and burned for the reasons listed above but she nevertheless managed to get herself on the ticket as VP, obviously positioning herself for a credible presidential run in 4 years

One of the mark of a good politician is to explain with fluency and shrewdness and some levity contradictions in policy, none of which Harris demonstrated last summer. She makes a good case, like any good prosecutor, and she appeal to the right people, so the Biden camp knew what it wanted.

don’t know about as a politician but I like Biden as a person. also like Kamala Harris, she had trouble defining her positions in the primary but I think she has underlying convictions, wants to do right, and is a good person too

with good people like this who needs bad people

One of the mark of a good politician is to explain with fluency and shrewdness and some levity contradictions in policy, none of which Harris demonstrated last summer. She makes a good case, like any good prosecutor, and she appeal to the right people, so the Biden camp knew what it wanted.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 24, 2020 7:36 PM (thirty-two minutes ago)

I think she lacks some of the skills necessary to be a transcendent national politician, but clearly what she has in her bag has worked well enough to get her to this point

She makes a good case, like any good prosecutor

Quick, somebody plant weed on Air Force One before November

Done.

I've had similar thoughts as eephus about AOC's appeal, and from the same perspective: as a Clinton 2016 / Warren 2020 supporter who thinks AOC is fantastic, as do most people I know. Like, surely she's the kind of charismatic candidate who can effectively bridge the left and the moderate wings of the parties!

But if I'm completely honest, I thought the same thing about Warren and was disappointed to discover that she wasn't actually beloved by all Democrats. (In fact, I say that I was a Warren "supporter" because I ultimately did vote for Bernie after she dropped out.) For all of the #Resistance #BlueWave wine moms in her corner, my own mom thought she was too "aggressive" or something. I eventually came to realize that I was in the bubble of "highly educated white people" who were disproportionately more likely to support her. Not only that, but it seemed like maybe the party itself wasn't as hot on Warren as I thought it would be.

Now, I think that AOC does have some advantages that Warren doesn't have. For instance, in addition to my middle-aged white friends, she also appeals to young people and nonwhite people. She has raw talent and genuine star power. But I also wonder if there's a limit to how far that can go, given her ideological position within the party.

That's a statement that some people in his thread might find laughably obvious, like "Of fucking course the Democratic Party is opposed to people like AOC." But I've thought of myself as a mainstream liberal Democrat for most of my adult life and have generally been OK with the Democratic Party, so there's still that sense of "If *I* like her, why wouldn't other people?"

I have friends in NY (not republicans) who expressed resentment to me about her for the role they perceived she had in banishing Amazon

When "Democratic Party" in 2020 means "everyone not a Republican" these ideological fissures will continue being commonplaces.

I live in her district and while I know I live in a particular bubble within said district every person I know and have ever spoken to love her and are glad the Amazon deal fell through.

from afar I love her too, think she is incredibly articulate, and hope she becomes president some day

ektspost, other dan, i know some people in her district who definitely do not like her. oddly, it's latinos in the bronx who think she talks too much, is a fameseeker, all stupid shit + her being pro-choice. I definitely get a crab mentality too.

In my surrounding neighborhood though, everyone I know is thrilled that the Amazon deal fell through too. only people who don't live near here seemed to be upset.

lmaooo

Honestly elephants deserve so much better than to be a mascot for this

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) August 25, 2020

jaymc said what I said better than I said it. Another way to put it is that if the billionaires don't dig her but young people, people of color, the professional-managerial class, people in the suburbs, union members, and every intersection of those categories dig her, she's still gonna go a long way in the Democratic Party, because that's who's voting in a Democratic primary.

the professional-managerial class, people in the suburbs,

These people will not share her political goals.

So you've got young people, POC and unions - which is to say, the groups whose desires the Democratic machine ignores election after election.

anecdotally a hardcore clinton-loving democrat i know loves aoc

AOC is someone who woulda thrilled me as a 20-something progressive before I became a jaded 30-something who gave up.

coulda done a lot with her coming up earlier, damn her for not being 40

most of the people I know who are really into her are professional managerial class.

after the way CBP treated her on that tour and posted about her on their secret FB pages, I do worry about her safety, often. thanks to all of the edgelords employed in our government

don't know exactly what professional managerial class means in the the context of my work but I want to reiterate that I love AOC

u down with AOC?

weird seeing people on ilx treat her like a true radical who'll scare off the professional managerial class while every hardcore leftist i encounter on twitter calls her an empty sellout to the professional managerial class

not down with AOC? :(

aoc is definitely beloved by a lot of soft dems who would hate the same policies/stances coming from anyone else strictly because she's a young #fierce #queen and that's all some ppl care about, which, I mean, sure, fine

(it should go without saying but I'll say anyway, that young latinx ppl deriving inspiration from her would be a different/distinct phenomenon and are not the ppl I have in mind here)

These people will not share her political goals.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Monday, August 24, 2020 11:42 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

she's a well branded celebrity who the GOP has turned into a top tier boogeyman. they love her! most of 'these people' stop caring about economic policy after primary season anyway

maybe more liberals will start turning on her when she seeks higher office. maybe she's capable of courting such a wide base because deep down no one believes that a single US representative makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. i think a lot of diehard centrists like her because they understand that demsoc ideas aren't going away and they find her a more palatable figurehead than bernie.

weird seeing people on ilx treat her like a true radical who'll scare off the professional managerial class while every hardcore leftist i encounter on twitter calls her an empty sellout to the professional managerial class

This really comes down to where she goes from here. If she appeases and moderates in the interest of furthering her career, they "sellouts" will be right. If her political program

I think it's easy for the upper-middle class to 'like' her and give her the Pelosi Jr slay kween treatment despite their interests not really coinciding with her stated platform - because she's one rep who isn't actually representing them. In a hypothetical 2028 Harris/AOC primary matchup I don't think those likes are going to translate into actual real world support.

Like the convention post - she told a bunch of people who don't want to be angry about the DNC that they're right to not be mad or fight about it. Of course they like that!

(And she's gotten a much colder reception from privileged white Democrats when she showed even a hint of rebellion to Pelosi.)

If her political program basically stays the path, the PMC will be scared off.*

if she keeps using filthy language, the PMRC will be too

If she even hinted at anything like the Berniebuster under President Biden, they'd turn on her with a quickness.

you are all so cynical

Anyone who has lived through the last 20-50 years of American life and isn't cynical has way better drug connections than me.

I really don't understand you milo, want to though

I have friends in NY (not republicans) who expressed resentment to me about her for the role they perceived she had in banishing Amazon

how do they feel about her now that Amazon has hugely increased its office space and employee numbers in NYC without being given giant taxpayer handouts?

xp For my entire life we've stumbled from crime against humanity to crime against humanity externally while inequality explodes internally, life gets harder for most people decade over decade, climate change looms unchecked, the very possibility of a better world gets more and more remote.

can't argue

As a non-American who finds US politics intensely depressing, it's just such a relief to see someone obviously intelligent and expressing principles rather than basing every position on who funds her campaigns. See also: Katie Porter.

If multiple Clinton16/Warren20 people on this thread are pro AOC this is surely a good thing. If she can simultaneously appeal to both liberals and people on the left thats good not bad?

And trying to persuade liberals she 'isn't what they think she is', or downplay any positive thoughts from that quarter seems counter-productive?

I think people know who she is by now, particularly here, and it’s really patronizing and paternalistic to assume we don’t.

100%, especially as everyone sees things through different lenses, none of which are any more true than any other. Someone who is able to appeal across different lenses is someone with good reach!

Definitely a scenario for accuentating the positives

it's almost like the left would rather be permanently aggrieved than win

Well, what's to "win" in a world that's already doomed? This isn't politics, it's apocalyptic millenarianism with a side of ego-stroking. "There's nothing to be done, the system is hopelessly corrupt and the planet is beyond saving...but I'm still purer than/superior to you."

it's almost like the left would rather be permanently aggrieved than win

AOC seems focused on goals to me, I'm not seeing an aggrieved way of thinking present at all!