What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

the democrats as they are right now though would never accept aoc as their candidate

Why do you think that? I'm a 2016 Clinton 2020 Warren guy who really likes Barack Obama and Joe Biden, I give money to candidates up and down the ballot, I could not be more "the Democrats as they are right now" and I will be over the moon when we nominate Ocasio-Cortez. As everybody in this thread says, she is GOOD at this. There are not many natural political talents like hers and Obama's. When you have one of those people in the party, they run and they win.

haha holy shit really? are you familiar with her core positions and how invested the dnc is in making sure they never happen?

xp And Obama and Harris and whoever else are the old senior Democrats when she runs will be cheering her on.

omfg *dies*

lol

Barack Obama, who only intervened in politics to forestall the possibility of a Democratic candidate who espouses AOC's positions, will be "cheering her on."

u high bro

The knock on the DNC is that it consists of and is run for people like me. (over 45, professional job, homeowner.) I think that's a fair knock. But the people I know are all pretty psyched about Ocasio-Cortez. So why wouldn't the DNC be?

They’re going to do everything they can to quietly undermine her if they can’t drag her to the center. She’s too much of a celeb right now to really fuck with her ala... the rest of the squad.

The people you know are cooler than the DNC.

(The knock on the DNC is that it’s run by and for the millionaires and billionaires of the donor class.)

aoc is very close ideologically to sanders and all signs so far point to her walking that walk. so no, obama is not going to be cheering her on unless that changes. and also if that doesn't change i would bet against her being a presidential candidate for the democrats.

Pelosi choosing Kennedy over Markey -- even intervening in this primary battle in the first place! -- tells you what you need to know about how the top brass regards troublemakers.

frankly I'd rather she become the mcconnel for the left

in lieu of abolishing the senate

Also, I don't want AOC to be president any time soon? She needs to primary Schumer first.

otm

Anyway, no way to know for sure until 2024 or 2028 or 2032 so let's see if I'm right, I hope so!

only four or eight or twelve more wildfire and hurricane seasons to go

eephus, my older Dem friends are supportive but wary of AOC, in part because these Cuban Americans think of their recent Democratic-voting parents and how they regard AOC.

I think AOC 100% has a political career beyond her current office, and that totally could include a presidential run. If the concern is that Nancy Pelosi will stand in her way, keep in mind that Pelosi will be pushing 90 by the time this might happen.

She might be minority leader of the Democratic rump after two years of austerity under Biden, so she’ll get to give some good speeches!

Like if you're a Democrat, who do you see being more able to generate a huge wave of voter enthusiasm that brings you House and Senate majorities and wins you seats in state legislatures too -- Pete Buttigieg? I like the guy but come on. (And Ocasio-Cortez seems canny enough to understand that the party has to do work to *maintain* those state legislative gains, something the Obama-led party completely dropped the ball on.)

eephus, my older Dem friends are supportive but wary of AOC, in part because these Cuban Americans think of their recent Democratic-voting parents and how they regard AOC.

Wait I am just not parsing this, your older friends are thinking about their parents and worried that she won't do well with elderly Cuban-Americans who vote Democratic?

AOC isn't going to pull the same Independent shenanigans like Bernie Sanders, that's already a step in the right direction.

Wait I am just not parsing this, your older friends are thinking about their parents and worried that she won't do well with elderly Cuban-Americans who vote Democratic?

― Guayaquil (eephus!),

Yes.

I sort of hate that 'President' is so often the ultimate end-point of our imagination when it comes to thrilling political figures

That said, electoral politics does seem like something she is invested in, and something she's good at

Like if you're a Democrat, who do you see being more able to generate a huge wave of voter enthusiasm that brings you House and Senate majorities and wins you seats in state legislatures too -- Pete Buttigieg?]

Buttigieg generates no enthusiasm. He's the candidate for what people imagine Warren fans are. He's a corporate non-entity without even Harris' charisma -- and I don't think either is politically skilled.

she is AT LEAST 20 years away from amassing the necessary power and social change necessary to push her toward the oval office and god willing we'll all live to see it.

Pete Buttigieg? I like the guy

Now there's a statement I never expected to see on ILX.

I'm actually happy to see it. Even the pro-Biden stuff round here got tiresome.

i am expecting/hoping for a 2030 future where the last of the worst pustulence has drained from the wound that is the GOP and Pete can be a republican in name as well as in spirit

xxxp

Happened pretty quickly for Obama

the GOP will never accept buggery 'n' bortion

Honestly, I think the end result of this Falwell scandal, and all the other Republican sex scandals up to and including Trump's various dalliances, is that sexual puritanism is going to fade away pretty quickly for the GOP.

Like if you're a Democrat, who do you see being more able to generate a huge wave of voter enthusiasm that brings you House and Senate majorities and wins you seats in state legislatures too -- Pete Buttigieg?

You're assuming that the Democratic machine would choose an ideological enemy to the left and a majority over an ideological enemy to the right and a comfortable minority.

Evangelical and GOP sex scandals for 50 years haven't done it, Falwell's not going to be the tripwire.

Bougie suburbanites (and their plantation owning ancestors) always been depraved perverts in private.

xp 100% I am assuming that, of the people who see Ocasio-Cortez as an ideological enemy, which is most decidedly not all Democrats.

Pete Buttigieg? I like the guy
Now there's a statement I never expected to see on ILX.

Oh I've been there.

And Buttigieg! What about my man Buttigieg?!

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:11 PM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink

as the color demographics continue to change, I expect a heavy push on the right to court the (white, well-dressed) gay community, "at least they get married"
i cannot imagine a world where they do not pretend to pretend that a four week abortion is not murdering babies though

I'm actually happy to see it. Even the pro-Biden stuff round here got tiresome.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 24, 2020 6:47 PM (nine minutes ago)

it’s tiresome because it’s so unconvincingly half-hearted, people talking themselves into defending this guy (on a message board....) they obviously don’t even like but are so weary from hearing right wing BS about they’ve just resigned themselves to supporting him. I mean there are a couple people who genuinely like him but mostly it’s just muscle memory

I disagree about harris being a poor politician btw, she’s clearly an excellent politician in the sense that she is shrewd, knows how to make connections, work behind the scenes, etc. she’s boring as fuck and obviously believes in nothing which makes it tougher in a presidential race where there are more options and the scrutiny is intensified. the last couple of years have been a perfect example of this: her presidential campaign crashed and burned for the reasons listed above but she nevertheless managed to get herself on the ticket as VP, obviously positioning herself for a credible presidential run in 4 years

One of the mark of a good politician is to explain with fluency and shrewdness and some levity contradictions in policy, none of which Harris demonstrated last summer. She makes a good case, like any good prosecutor, and she appeal to the right people, so the Biden camp knew what it wanted.

don’t know about as a politician but I like Biden as a person. also like Kamala Harris, she had trouble defining her positions in the primary but I think she has underlying convictions, wants to do right, and is a good person too

with good people like this who needs bad people

One of the mark of a good politician is to explain with fluency and shrewdness and some levity contradictions in policy, none of which Harris demonstrated last summer. She makes a good case, like any good prosecutor, and she appeal to the right people, so the Biden camp knew what it wanted.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 24, 2020 7:36 PM (thirty-two minutes ago)

I think she lacks some of the skills necessary to be a transcendent national politician, but clearly what she has in her bag has worked well enough to get her to this point

She makes a good case, like any good prosecutor

Quick, somebody plant weed on Air Force One before November

Done.

I've had similar thoughts as eephus about AOC's appeal, and from the same perspective: as a Clinton 2016 / Warren 2020 supporter who thinks AOC is fantastic, as do most people I know. Like, surely she's the kind of charismatic candidate who can effectively bridge the left and the moderate wings of the parties!

But if I'm completely honest, I thought the same thing about Warren and was disappointed to discover that she wasn't actually beloved by all Democrats. (In fact, I say that I was a Warren "supporter" because I ultimately did vote for Bernie after she dropped out.) For all of the #Resistance #BlueWave wine moms in her corner, my own mom thought she was too "aggressive" or something. I eventually came to realize that I was in the bubble of "highly educated white people" who were disproportionately more likely to support her. Not only that, but it seemed like maybe the party itself wasn't as hot on Warren as I thought it would be.

Now, I think that AOC does have some advantages that Warren doesn't have. For instance, in addition to my middle-aged white friends, she also appeals to young people and nonwhite people. She has raw talent and genuine star power. But I also wonder if there's a limit to how far that can go, given her ideological position within the party.

That's a statement that some people in his thread might find laughably obvious, like "Of fucking course the Democratic Party is opposed to people like AOC." But I've thought of myself as a mainstream liberal Democrat for most of my adult life and have generally been OK with the Democratic Party, so there's still that sense of "If *I* like her, why wouldn't other people?"

I have friends in NY (not republicans) who expressed resentment to me about her for the role they perceived she had in banishing Amazon

When "Democratic Party" in 2020 means "everyone not a Republican" these ideological fissures will continue being commonplaces.