I'm not sure how many in her district would support this move, as much as they appreciate her progressivism; but I'd need more data about her district.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 16:59 (three years ago) link
feels like a quick way to doom herself to irrelevance tbrr
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:00 (three years ago) link
I suspect (but can't prove, obv) most of her constituents would take her over the party in a heartbeat xp
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:01 (three years ago) link
better to risk irrelevance than keep propping up these losers who don't even respect you imho
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.),
Ha. This goes for just about every GOP and Dem.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:03 (three years ago) link
itt simon once again reminds us that he prefers progressivism accomplish nothing rather than form any coalitions with the impure
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:27 (three years ago) link
Also, AOC has never dealt with a Democratic president, nor a Democratic president like Joe Biden. The fun's about to start.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:40 (three years ago) link
“impure” is a funny way to describe mass murderers, cops, rapists, etc
― Your original display name will be displayed in brackets (Left), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:44 (three years ago) link
"mass murderers, cops, rapists, etc" is a funny way to describe democrats. maybe I'd understand you better if you'd expanded on the etc. part.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:48 (three years ago) link
Part of the tapestry of America iirc
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:49 (three years ago) link
She's still the youngest in Congress, right? I think she should hang onto her "future of the party" mantle until others to her right start trying to take it from her. I'd like to see a generation of Dem socialists come in behind her and wield some serious political power.
― BrianB, Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:53 (three years ago) link
I'm kind of surprised she wasn't savvy enough to foresee that this was exactly how her role in the convention was going to be portrayed. or maybe she just felt stuck because this is all she was offered and she didn't want to give the impression she was dissing Bernie.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:13 (three years ago) link
there's "coalition" and then there's letting them make a token out of you (or try to). hypothetically this new left formation could work with dems on certain issues.
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:13 (three years ago) link
as a dues paying member of the NDP (sigh) it would be pretty silly if I disavowed compromise altogether
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:15 (three years ago) link
It’s only a coalition if you get something out of it.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:18 (three years ago) link
The States can't beat Duverger's law, sadly
― Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:20 (three years ago) link
xp to milo- bingo! but you have to drop some pennies in the slot before you get back a gumball.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:22 (three years ago) link
One day Lucy’s gonna let you kick the ball.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:25 (three years ago) link
she's voted with them on countless deeply flawed bills no doubt, what counts as a "penny"
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:26 (three years ago) link
the Lucy-Charlie Brown analogy doesn't really work in real politics. Charlie Brown owns the football and if he had half a brain he'd get another holder or buy himself a tee. if progressives owned the majority of votes, they could tell everyone else to fuck off.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:34 (three years ago) link
Well!
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) ripped NBC for a tweet that noted she "did not endorse" 2020 nominee Joe Biden in her 60-second speech at the Democratic National Convention, with the first-term congresswoman calling it "completely unacceptable, disappointing, and appalling."
"In one of the shortest speeches of the DNC, Rep. Ocasio-Cortez did not endorse Joe Biden," NBC News said in its original post to the network's more than 7.7 million followers.
"This is completely unacceptable, disappointing, and appalling," Ocasio-Cortez wrote in response to her 8.3 million followers. "The DNC shared the procedural purpose of my remarks to media WELL in advance. @NBC knew what was going to happen & that it was routine."
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:37 (three years ago) link
if progressives owned the majority of votes, they could tell everyone else to fuck off
good luck with that on the current course
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:40 (three years ago) link
in the case of AOC, the return favor for voting with the caucus would be things like getting the committee assignments she wants, having a bill she sponsors assigned to a favorable committee, or putting an amendment of hers to a floor vote. for a first year representative who has not yet won a re-election, she's moving into prominence pretty rapidly.
votes are better than luck
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:46 (three years ago) link
You don’t have to have a majority of votes, you have to have the difference-making number of votes and for those votes to not be automatically pledged to any Democratic Party cut-out.
That assumes the centrists actually care about winning elections. Given their preference for hectoring young voters and progressive voters rather than giving them a reason to vote, that continues to be a question mark.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:47 (three years ago) link
Framing the potential benefit entirely in terms of careerism really speaks volumes.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:48 (three years ago) link
how are "getting the committee assignments she wants" and "having a bill she sponsors assigned to a favorable committee" not good for her constituents?
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:50 (three years ago) link
I don't see those elements as careerist at first, but in politics careerism and altruism are inseparable. .
Careerism? The Congress works entirely through passing legislation. Everything I mentioned is directly related to accomplishing stuff, in fact, it is the only way you can accomplish stuff in Congress.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:52 (three years ago) link
iirc you can not have a (D) next to your name and still get a lot done, I think someone has done this recently in fact
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:58 (three years ago) link
president Donald J Trump
― Temporary Erogenous Zone (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 18:59 (three years ago) link
Given their preference for hectoring young voters and progressive voters rather than giving them a reason to vote
Fucking-A. If you just sit around waiting for centrists to give you a reason to vote, you're playing the game all wrong. You already have votes. If you hate the candidates, go find better candidates and build something out of that. It's exactly how the far right took over the republicans. They organized and used their muscle in the primaries. Now all the Republican are scared stiff of getting primaried by the right if they get less than 100% ratings from certain groups.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:00 (three years ago) link
how are "getting the committee assignments she wants" and "having a bill she sponsors assigned to a favorable committee" not good for her constituents
Because they don’t inherently have anything to do with her constituents (either ideological or actual)? Having your Rep chair the Armed Services Committee isn’t exactly changing your life (traditionally it just changes their donor situation).
Again, the only way the potential benefit - but starting with the coalition/impure post, we’re talking about people and issues beyond the horizon or AOC’s career.
Being a party loyalist would be great for her career, if she’s content to be a token progressive (or “socialist”) to be trotted our when necessary. To the people who have made her what she is, the benefit seems rather lacking. Which is why it’s telling that aimless can only frame it in terms of individual career advancement and value.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:01 (three years ago) link
f you just sit around waiting for centrists to give you a reason to vote,
If you’d like to win elections, giving people reasons to vote is the entirety of your job.
If you hate the candidates, go find better candidates and build something out of that.
I believe that’s what Simon suggested that started this whole chain of posts.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:04 (three years ago) link
"Inherently" is doing some work here.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:13 (three years ago) link
milo, you seem determined to believe that there is some avenue to getting what you want which completely rejects politics as they are presently constituted. those politics have been shaped over a period of more than two centuries of response to evolving political factors. they constitute the structure of political power today.
I get that the game is rigged to perpetuate power among those with power already, but more than once in US history large shifts of power have been engineered by the power of ordinary people organizing for change. Often this has been a matter of the powerless taking to the streets, but ultimately in the USA it has always come down to gaining and casting the majority of votes in elections, in Congress, and in state legislatures. The powerless have never yet toppled the government through revolution.
Tell me why this is a bad take, and what is a better one.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:15 (three years ago) link
As I read what Simon said, he simply expressed the desire that AOC remove herself from the Democratic party. Nothing about forming a new party.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:23 (three years ago) link
oh yes new party please
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:25 (three years ago) link
(and yes it would be very very very hard)
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:26 (three years ago) link
fuck reforming your genocidal slave state
― Your original display name will be displayed in brackets (Left), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:26 (three years ago) link
... you like it how it is?
― shout-out to his family (DJP), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:27 (three years ago) link
I'm getting really good at rapidly hopping btwn accounts xp
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:28 (three years ago) link
xps - then you are choosing a much more difficult road than the better-traveled road of becoming the major power broker within one of the existing parties and rebranding it to suit your needs.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:30 (three years ago) link
xxp of course not I want it gone
― Your original display name will be displayed in brackets (Left), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:31 (three years ago) link
Not really? It’s leaving open the possibility of a politician’s career advancement being good for their constituents - but they are not actually, directly linked in the way that was being applied.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:31 (three years ago) link
good luck waiting for it to wither away on its own
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:32 (three years ago) link
you are choosing a much more difficult road than the better-traveled road of becoming the major power broker within one of the existing parties and rebranding it to suit your needs
yup because that better traveled road goes fuckin nowhere the vast majority of the time
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:32 (three years ago) link
sort of like this thread lol
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:33 (three years ago) link
you seem determined to believe that there is some avenue to getting what you want which completely rejects politics as they are presently constituted
I’ve not suggested that. I’m just pointing out that your acquiescent model - waiting for them to come to you if you just keep plugging those pennies in eventually you’ll get your prize, etc. - appears to be completely divorced from reality.
If one advocates horse-trading votes, progressives collectively withholding those difference-making votes, then you’re anathema. Unrealistic, childish, purity politics, etc.
(It’s almost like people saying this shit don’t actually have any interest in progressive goals.)
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:35 (three years ago) link
that better traveled road goes fuckin nowhere the vast majority of the time
and the less travelled road goes nowhere nearly 100% of the time
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:35 (three years ago) link
The better traveled road ends with AOC as Pelosi and gosh why would anyone see a problem there?
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:37 (three years ago) link