I HATE APPLE

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (10189 of them)
Hah. The Constructive Argument Department strikes again! Just because you have never had any reiserfs problems doesn't mean it's a better choice than ext3.

I've had severe performance problems with concurrent access to large files on reiserfs filesystems - "severe" meaning "causing processes to hang in the D-state for several minutes". These problems vanished when I moved the relevant files over to an ext3 filesystem.

Now, that's not going to be a problem for everyone. Not many people have databases with files over 4G in size, like we do. Nevertheless, Reiserfs clearly isn't up to the job for *that* task, and it doesn't have any advantages over properly-optimised ext3 for general fileserving.

I'm not going to get into an experience fight, but I *do* know what I'm talking about when it comes to Linux sysadmin stuff. Just to let you know.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:06 (eighteen years ago) link

My PB has decided to fall asleep eery 10 seconds or so. I narrowed it down to a faulty heat sensor underneath the trackpad that gives wildly incorrect readings, freaking out the system software and forcing "emergency overtemp" shutdowns. I took it to Tekserve yesterday and it turns out I know one of the guys who works back there - I'd forgotten. He put me to the front of his queue and I'm getting it back today! THANK U APPLECARE. It is fucking retardo that there's not a hack to tell the system to ignore that particular heat sensor, though - and even more that OS X doesn't at least pop up a dialog to tell you what just happened. What if the computer actually was too hot?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't believe that problems like that with reiser exist to this day; what kernel was this?

Ext3 is a bag on the side of Ext2 which has been tuned the fuck out, but it is less than optimal design that needs to die.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Off the top of my head I don't know the exact version. A 2.4 varient, certainly.

Whatever the kernel version, I'm certainly not going to use reiserfs again where there is a risk of something like that happening. Yes, I could move off it - I did do - but that involves significant downtime.

Ext3 is a ... less than optimal design that needs to die.

It's fast, fully-featured, and very very solid.

What features does reiserfs have that ext3 doesn't? None that are worth trading the extra reliability for.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:37 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm not answering me, YOU FUCKING LIAR.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link

or you :(

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Performance

Compared to ext2 and ext3 in 2.4, when dealing with files under 4k and with tail packing enabled, ReiserFS is often faster by a factor of 10–15. This is of great benefit in Usenet news spools, HTTP caches, mail delivery systems and other applications where performance with small files is critical.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link

ReiserFS in versions of the Linux kernel before 2.4.10 were considered unstable by Namesys and not recommended for production use, especially in conjunction with NFS.
Some file operations (including unlink(2)) are not synchronous on ReiserFS, which can cause some subtle breakage in applications relying heavily on file-based locks.
There is no known way to defragment a ReiserFS filesystem, aside from a full dump and restore.
Early implementations of ReiserFS (prior to that in Linux 2.6.2) were also susceptible to out-of-order write hazards (files being appended to during a crash, for example, would gain a tail of garbage upon next mount). The current journaling implementation in ReiserFS, however, is now on par with that of ext3's "ordered" journaling level.


HAHAHA :(

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:52 (eighteen years ago) link

ReiserFS stores file metadata ("stat items"), directory entries ("directory items"), inode block lists ("indirect items") and tails of files ("direct items") in a single, combined B+ tree keyed by a universal object id. Disk blocks allocated to nodes of the tree are "formatted internal blocks". Blocks for leaf nodes (in which items are packed end-to-end) are "formatted leaf blocks". All other blocks are "unformatted blocks" containing file contents. Directory items with too many entries or indirect items which are too long to fit into a node spill over into the right leaf neighbour. Block allocation is tracked by free space bitmaps in fixed locations.
By contrast, ext2 and other Berkeley FFS-like filesystems simply use a fixed formula for computing inode locations, hence limiting the number of files they may contain. Most such filesystems also store directories as simple lists of entries, which makes directory lookups and updates linear-time operations and degrades performance on very large directories. The single B+ tree design in ReiserFS was intended to avoid both of these problems.

I'd probably say reiser is ok for a dev workstation for these reasons, but yea, if you ran into those problems, avoid it. I had amazing performance with it being used to torrent tons of stuff while doing lots of huge compile jobs.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm happy with XFS! Its data-loss-on-crash issues are reportedly less common and less destructive than Reiser's.

Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Yea, I think I'd probably use XFS now. I remember being scared by how much freaking code comprised it!

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, I know how to find Wikipedia, thanks. Responding to the highlighted bits:

By contrast, ext2 and other Berkeley FFS-like filesystems simply use a fixed formula for computing inode locations, hence limiting the number of files they may contain.

A default ext3 filesystem, off the top of my head, has 1 inode for every 4k of disk space. Hence, if your average file size is under 4k then you'll run out of inodes before data blocks. I don't think there are many situations where that is likely to apply.

Most such filesystems also store directories as simple lists of entries, which makes directory lookups and updates linear-time operations and degrades performance on very large directories.

Ext3 doesn't have to, though - it can store directory contents either as a list or a b-tree.

Filesystem comparisons are hard to do, normally, because it's rare to switch between filesystems on one machine.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Aha, you are right about the directory list entries.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Jon is there any acceptable reason another human being should use a computer in a fashion that is not identical to the way you use a computer?

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:40 (eighteen years ago) link

meanwhile, back in the real world: anyone else having problems with gmail notifier? mine's fucked.

the gmail+growl site suggests some kind of weird shit is going down. it's been knackered for me since 9.30am BST today.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:02 (eighteen years ago) link

use one tcpdump

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I HATE YOU GUYS

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago) link

ymail notifier breaks for me like every 2nd day. (no need for gmail notifier since i just pipe gmail straight to Mail.app) still i keep it around, dunno why.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't understand why peoplee think webmail is such a hot idea. It is good when you're traveling but nothing beats organizing your own shit in folders with good drag and drop etc. I keep my folders for work imap synced. Since I use a laptop, it is handy to have offline access to mail.

Also:

http://wizardishungry.com/lol/mail.png

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link

y no smartfolders, jon?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I use smartfolders as views for stuff but I like my "Inbox" to only have non mailing list traffic as the unread count in the dock icon corresponds to the number unread in the inbox. Also, with colors I can see where stuff is from in any of my smartfolders ("Today", "This Week", etc). These rules also move each mailing list into its own folder.

Finally a PEEVE with Apple Mail -- Why doesn't each folder remember which columns you had turned on in it rather than the setup now where the columns are GLOBAL.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 20:02 (eighteen years ago) link

that's cool jon. i like your style.

by the way, I LOVE TEKSERVE. hardware problem requiring new top casing & trackpad = fixed overnight.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 21:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't understand why peoplee think webmail is such a hot idea.

Neither did I, until I started using Gmail. Conversations and fast-searching are such great additions to mail that I'm never going back. Spotlight can search -- slowly -- at home, but what about when I'm not? Mail.app and other clients have pissy little stabs at "threading", but they're all shit compared to conversations. And are useless away from home.

If only Gmail had IMAP, it would be the best of both worlds.

stet (stet), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:30 (eighteen years ago) link

all this stuff

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:31 (eighteen years ago) link

If gmail had IMAP, I'd probably use it instead of fastmail, as it is I use it as an extra thang and at home use Mail.app (which searches very fast, in my experience). And I don't really like the conversation thing in gmail. I'm a bit old school about email presentation.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know why I'm here. I don't hate Apple.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I have my first ever apple...thing, since my v generous birthday

I almost got hit by a car, today! listening to my ipod. luckily it was the guy next to me and I only got hit by him phew

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:50 (eighteen years ago) link

i use a gmail address but like i said check it generally via Mail.app. I find it handy to still be able to access it as straight gmail while I'm at work. I figure too its more perm than any provider type acct and more portable and etc.

yahoo makes you pay for pop so i don't do that and i'm generally trying to wean myself off it but it still gets used for a couple older mailinglists.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 03:19 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know why I'm here. I don't hate Apple.

me neither. but i do get very frustrated with them sometimes.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 07:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't believe that problems like that with reiser exist

Paul Reiser?

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 09:03 (eighteen years ago) link

No, Hans.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 09:59 (eighteen years ago) link

whoever was the dumbshit that said applecare was $60 is a fuck off. It's $250 dollars for an iBook, which is the cheapest laptop and $100 for a new iPod with video .Dip shit. besides, macs are great compters and apple has great support.

WEEBEL, Monday, 3 April 2006 02:01 (eighteen years ago) link

I hate macs. So there.

Gary Ganu, Thursday, 6 April 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I hate macintosh... They always @#*)(*@$& CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Today as I work at the library, I have experienced several crashes and had to restart twice. The main directorys cannot be found and everything is having unexpected errrrrrrrrrrrrors!!!!!! I used to have a mac at home which does this exactly same f@#(@&#( thing!. MACs suck shit. PCs are the best thing ever as they beat Macintrash by 110000000000000000000000000:1

Rommel, Tuesday, 11 April 2006 01:34 (eighteen years ago) link

OMFG THOSE OF WHO USE MACS WILLINGLY ARE ASSHOLES. I AM FORCED TO SE MACS AT SCHOOL AND EVERT 15 MINUTES THE GODDAMN THING CRASHES, OR OVERHEATS OR FREEZES OR ENCOUNTERS TERMINAL SYSTEM FAILURE, OMFG GROW A GODDAMN BRAIN ASSHOLES I OPE AL MACS BLOW THE FUCK UPA ND NEVER WORK AGAIN

Wilkie, Tuesday, 11 April 2006 01:35 (eighteen years ago) link

MACs really suck... they always crash and are the hardets thing to use in history.

Truman Heeler, Tuesday, 11 April 2006 01:36 (eighteen years ago) link

macs always blow up, killing their operators. so hard to live with max.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 02:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, I'm posting on a mac right now and it's running just fine. I think macs are beautifully constructed pieces of machinery that....

**okay - it's not looking - my mac has tied me up and is forcing me to do it's evil bidding - send help right away. I... oh no... no, I wasn't doing anyth... no please... NNNNOOOOOOOO

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 02:56 (eighteen years ago) link

THE EVIL GENIUS BAR GUY SENT MY COMPUTER IN. HE SAID IT WAS JUST TO REPLACE THE DC INBOARD AND THAT IT WOULDN'T EFFECT MY FILES. MY COMPUTER CAME BACK. IT HAS A NEW HARD DRIVE. I REALLY REALLY REALLY HATE APPLE.

(Yes, I'm an idiot for not backing up my files but I bought the external hard drive and couldn't get the computer running long enough to do so.)

Apple Tech is going to call me back. I hope they can make some amends.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

oh no!!!

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:39 (eighteen years ago) link

OH WOW! I had to send my computer in but they actually called me before doing so

JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:43 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah they basically do this with everyone, just to let you know who's boss. I'm amazed they actually called you JW. They must know you're an obnoxious fanboy evangelist.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I did mine through the Apple Tech's at my old uni, who don't work for Apple or the uni.

JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, you mean non-Geniuses.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Fuck Apple Customer Support

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:57 (eighteen years ago) link

hugz Mary, I know I joked on the DC thread but that really does suck. If they can't locate your missing parts you should go ahead and request they give you a brand new computer since this one is just going to break again anyway!! I mean fuck.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I know, this one went from brand new computer to need new logic board in the space of 2 years, beating my previous Mac's logic board, which wanted a replacement after 4 years. What do I do to these poor logic boards?

I still have Apple care for another year so hopefully the new drive and board will last that long.

My moms told me I should take it to this little Mac stand on Route 1 and I checked they did accept Apple care and they are certified technicians and all that, but for some reason I thought it would be easier to take it in to the store. Next outage I'm gonna see what the mom and pop can do.

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. It's not as traumatic this time around, as it was the last time my computer broke. (It also helps that my mom has an identical computer in the basement for moments like this.)

The only thing I really got screwed on was some pictures I only had on the computer.

I think from now on I'm going back to analog.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago) link

you're going back to analog! I smashed my laptop into submission with my head and still regret that I cannot also do my job using only pen & paper! As far as I'm concerned I'll take a blackberry and a Nintendo DS and that's all I want. No more of this hullaballoo over infotech for me.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:24 (eighteen years ago) link

All praise Ned Lud.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:27 (eighteen years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.