rolling #metoo thread for sexual harassment in the music industry so no one misses out when artists we don't give a fuck about like Tim Westwood and Bassnectar get caught

also (DUI aside) the drug abuse detailed in the story is being like 20 years old and tripping in the woods iirc

To amend my post above, I realIzed that the Buzzfeed piece doesn’t actually link to The Stranger article (“Immodest Mouse: Singer Accused of Rape,” 3/18/99) — apparently it’s been taken down. When it references the article, it links to a book about Modest Mouse, and then to a 4/1/99 Letters to the Editor page (still hosted at TheStranger.com) with responses to the article.

What a dogshit headline, “Immodest Mouse: Singer Accused of Rape,”

p funny tho

At risk of reviving a clusterfuck, I’m going to get into many of the same issues that plagued the Jane’s Addiction thread, regarding a situation that is ambiguous. I’m willing, in the absence of further evidence, to conceded that Brock’s case was _ambiguous_. But that piece was so thoroughly soaking in rape culture tropes that it makes it more suspicious, not less.

-where is the victim/survivor/rapee’s point of view? It is missing. It is alluded to, but never detailed. We only ever read about the disputed sex act through the eyes of the accused, we are only invited to empathise with the alleged perpetrator.

rape is a crime of subjectivity. The people involved are on different scripts. One says it was consensual, the other says it was coercive. To *erase* the subjective view of the person making the allegation is to erase the crime.

-the character of the accused is discussed in detail, presenting him in a favourable light, before the rape charges are ever introduced. He’s a 'Nice Guy' who would previously have joined anti-rape protesters, who is now portrayed as the *victim* of said protesters. The details of his current relationship are considered exonerating, as he is in a committed relationship with a sound and sensible woman. (Ted Bundy was able to charm sound and sensible women into relationships!)

-the details that *are* described about the girl are all ways of presenting her as differing from the 'perfect victim' script. She was 'known within the scene' (she had a Reputation.) She was there for a talk with an ex-boyfriend. (she was not a virgin.) She had been drinking.

-the fact of her drinking is produced as evidence that the event was somehow... *less* rapey and more ambiguous, even though alcohol is the tool most frequently used by rapists. When discussing Perry Farrell, people seemed to recognise that a much older man introducing mind-altering chemicals to a younger woman not legally able to obtain them herself, was something that warped the power dynamics to make it *more* ethically dubious, not less. The girl becoming intoxicated, while drinking at his table, (notice how it is totally elided, who supplied the alcohol?) is supposed to somehow exonerate Brock?

-the offer of accommodation. Here we have the introduction of ambiguity, in the sense of the Crossing of Sexual Scripts. We have a teenage girl, illicitly intoxicated to the point where she is unable to locate her keys, stranded in a dodgy part of town, at odd hours of the night, a situation which most young women would read as dangerous enough to require a companion on the walk home. Women are taught, by Rape Culture, that being alone, intoxicated, in an unfamiliar part of town, late at night, is the single most dangerous situation where one can expect to be raped. She is coming from a place of vulnerability, and looking for a haven.

-the man offers her a place to stay. This *appears* to be an offer of a safe haven, protected from 3AM-Rape-Streets. The sexual scripts here completely differ. Rape Culture teaches men, that if a woman willingly enters your house/apartment/hotel room/tourbus after midnight, she is essentially ~Consenting To Enter The Rape Palace~ and is tacitly agreeing to any and all sexual contact.

We’ve seen, in those stories of Mark K, how abusive men use those 'crossed scripts' of "oh, you need to call an Uber, come back to my hotel, you can do it there" to impose a sexual ~Rape Palace~ script on a woman who believes she is on a Safe Haven script.

-the former housemate is given more of a voice, in the story, than the *victim* is! This housemate sees no apparent connection between the two events they overhear:
a) Brock tells the girl to be quiet or the housemate will hear
b) The girl is quiet, there are no noises indicating any kind of distress, therefore no rape can have taken place

In a safe haven script, 'be quiet so my housemate does not hear' is specific statement indicating, if you make noise, object, protest, you will be in trouble, you will lose the Safe Haven, and be ejected back on the 3AM-Rape-Streets. It is not an indication of consent, it is a quite conceivably a veiled thread.

-The victim is quiet, she does not scream, indicate distress, or try to run away, therefore clearly the sex was consensual.

This is just pure Rape Culture. People are taught that there are only 2 reactions to fear or threat – Fight or Flight. People who study the experiences of rape survivors, repeatedly encounter two different reactions from the point of view of the rapee: freeze, or flop. These are the overwhelming responses described by survivors of rape, to either completely freeze up and become physically petrified and incapable of moving; or to become completely passive and flop about like a dead fish.

In predator theory, these responses are sometimes compared to other prey responses within the natural world. Deer freeze in the headlamps. If you are a creature that has pretty good natural camouflage, facing a predator who works by sight, especially sight which is sensitive to movement, *freeze* is actually a successfully adaptive response to attack. Animals play dead. If what you are facing is not a predator looking to eat you, but a much bigger animal patrolling its territory or its defending its young, an inert, floppy prey which appears to be already dead, is no longer a threat, and will generally be left alone. *Flop* can be a successfully adaptive response to attack.

If you are working from a model that sees 'fight or flight' as the only potential reactions to rape, you will miss the actual 'freeze or flop' reactions that 90% of rape survivors report. That's why so many rape activists are trying to work to change sexual scripts from 'absense of no' to 'enthusistic consent'. The person writing this piece is showing right here, that they have *no fucking idea* what rape is, or how people who are being raped act. And that was the point where I stopped reading.

Without the actual words of the girl (though she is reported as describing the experience as rape) I cannot make that subjective call of 'rape' or 'not rape'. But the way that things are presented in this piece, every angle, every framing, makes it *more* likely to be rape, not less.

What a completely unnecessary post.

maybe? I was aiming to pull at the noted threads of ambiguity in the (third-hand version of) the case as reported, but had had several drinks. any passing mod is encouraged to axe my post if it's especially dumb or bad or incoherent, or just on whim

not every thread needs pulling

I just found about Ian Watkins from Lostprophets being convicted in 2018: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Watkins_(Lostprophets_singer)

This one is particularly enraging because it even involves baby rape.

I've also heard that Daniel Sturridge is going to Chelsea

Sorry, I guess it was popular news but I was never into nu-metal or lostprophets for that matter.

In predator theory, these responses are sometimes compared to other prey responses within the natural world. Deer freeze in the headlamps. If you are a creature that has pretty good natural camouflage, facing a predator who works by sight, especially sight which is sensitive to movement, *freeze* is actually a successfully adaptive response to attack. Animals play dead. If what you are facing is not a predator looking to eat you, but a much bigger animal patrolling its territory or its defending its young, an inert, floppy prey which appears to be already dead, is no longer a threat, and will generally be left alone. *Flop* can be a successfully adaptive response to attack.

― cheeky boshing shamanic art-prankster (Branwell with an N)

the language of trauma response i'm familiar with includes freeze and also fawn. i agree that there needs to be a better understanding of trauma, trauma patterns, and trauma responses. there is a significant disconnect between the lived experiences of trauma and abuse survivors and the cultural norms around trauma and abuse.

idk for me the "flop" response made sense because i'd assumed the gratification of sex included the partner's responsiveness, so if I didn't respond, it wouldn't be gratifying for him ... nope!

actually it was just about _his_ dick

As a sexual abuse survivor, Andy would like to suggest: even though it's less common, dissociation is very much a real thing. When your mind dissociates, it is out of fear and protection. Although the dissociated individual probably won't appear to be enjoying the situation, they certainly won't be disagreeable — because, as Branwell so articulately and validly pointed out, there is almost always the unspoken possibility of physical harm if the abused resists. Or maybe even the abuser just doesn't care and has made the consequences very clear: do what I want and you'll be fine.

The Modest Mouse bloke has been a documented manipulative (arguably borderline narcissistic) person in just about every other aspect of their engagements, so Andy has to wonder just how high the probabilities are that their manipulations crossed over into sexual manipulations as well.

Alex Fitzpatrick, co-founder of Holy Roar:

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/holy-roar-records-founder-accused-of-rape-several-bands-respond/

So grateful to the incredibly brave victims and sources who spoke with me for this story. Morillo's predatory behaviour spanned nearly thirty years and ruined lives. It's disgraceful that it has taken this long for these stories to come to light. I know there are so many more. https://t.co/zlQjc8N78V

— Annabel Ross (@annabel_ross) September 15, 2020

that's a harrowing and appalling long read.

From that journalist’s twitter feed ... YIKES

https://m.facebook.com/793874029/posts/10158549434069030/?extid=0q95Wg5149URdpjB&d=n

also posted to the derrick may thread. ugh

"and because men" otm

this has been popping on on minneapolis twitter last two days
just a shameful decision by public radio

http://citypages.com/music/mpr-reporter-resigns-cites-stalled-investigation-into-allegedly-abusive-current-dj/572407841

https://www.startribune.com/djs-at-the-current-voice-support-for-mpr-reporter-investigating-colleague/572419822/

Well fuck this guy. And the harassment is just part of his awfulness.

https://www.metalsucks.net/2020/09/28/sexual-harassment-and-bullying-booking-titan-john-finbergs-accusers-speak-out/

Wow!

God, that kept going and getting worse. Absolutely horrifying that such a guy has been encouraged and allowed to prosper by the metal community. What a genuine monster.

Another account of Finberg's sexual harassment, same pattern

I read this today and I'm not surprised.

I was sexually harrassed by John Finberg back in 2018, during Helloween's Pumpkins United Tour in Mexico https://t.co/zUAcuz9Wid

— Tinúviel (@den_akari) September 29, 2020

Producer 5ive invited me to his studio a few years ago to get on nines’ album. This didn’t happen because he tried to rape me in the studio toilets !! He even had to cheek to message me months later saying “I should’ve fucked him cos he’s been signed now”. The industry for u🤮

— 19🧞‍♀️♍️ (@Sariaha9) November 9, 2020

Derrick May

https://djmag.com/longreads/multiple-women-report-sexual-assault-and-harassment-derrick-may

(trigger warning for the in-depth article, as per most of the articles in this thread)

Ah, the DM thread was on it already

https://pitchfork.com/news/octavian-accused-of-abuse-issues-denial/

shit, well fuck him. the noticeably selective denial doesn't do him any favours either

argument is the video of him saying what he did isn't literally a video of him doing it, so he didn't do it. so his defence is that he was lying then, but she's the liar? I hope too many people don't buy it

Diplo

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-dj-diplo-woman-accuse-revenge-porn-20201117-dnx5prt5hjcjnfktv7eznivdly-story.html

Octavian got dropped by his label too

https://www.nme.com/news/music/octavian-denies-accusations-physical-verbal-psychological-abuse-made-by-former-partner-2815000

Also there was a temporary restraining order granted against Diplo so maybe there’s some evidence behind the claim?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/temporary-restraining-order-granted-against-diplo-revenge-porn-case-n1248184

MIA rang the alarm a decade ago on him:

When I got signed by Interscope, he literally smashed my hotel room and broke all the furniture because he was so angry I got picked up by a major label and it was the corniest thing in the world that could possibly happen. And then Missy Elliott called me for the first time in 2005 to work with me on her record, and I’m sure we had a massive fight about that — the fact that I was talking to anyone who was, like, popular. I wish I enjoyed it because I had this person on my shoulder the whole time saying, “It’s shit, it’s shit, it’s shit. You shouldn’t be on the charts. You shouldn’t be in the magazines and you should not be going to interviews. You should not be doing collaborations with famous people. You should be an underground artist.”
So the whole two years I was with him, I just let him dictate. I basically had this man dictate to me how everything in America that I experienced was completely, like, irrelevant and it was nothing. So it was kind of a weird time for me. It was only afterwards, when I went into the second record and I went into it without him, I got to enjoy that by myself. But on the end of that I ran into another man, so the window of me actually being alone, single and a female and being empowered and enjoying what I created was very, very small.
Was Diplo’s mentality like, “You’re selling out”?
Oh, 100 percent. It’s only now when I look back at it in 2015, I can see that he was just jealous and he couldn’t wait to be Taylor Swift’s best friend and date Katy Perry. But at that time I believed him. I just felt like he was right, and he was something of a political, righteous person with some values. I didn’t realize it was just jealousy. That actually, the life that I had and the story that I told through my music and the connections I had with people in the music industry and the connections that I made in the streets of London or around the planet and me being the way I am and my personality — that is what made me make that record. It was really stupid for me to put all that hard work in and evolve as a human being for 25 years and then on the 27th year meet this guy and just give him the batch of controlling it. I think that’s what happens to women, you know: You fall in love, and shit happens.

oh yeah diplo was a known shithead, this particular aspect is new though

pretty repellent stuff about the Growlers, don’t know anything about past issues she mentions.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDR1W0il3_U/

Ugh, that's horrible. I've never heard of the Growlers, but Starcrawler is great. I'm really sorry to hear about that.

Not just the music industry but ugh:

https://pitchfork.com/news/fka-twigs-sues-shia-labeouf-alleging-abuse-and-assault/

Massive new story about Burger Records

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2021-01-24/burger-records-musicians-sexual-misconduct

Oh man, not a name I expected recognizing in the accused list...

I'll be dumping off a box of records tomorrow.

The Tyde allegation one is the most surprising of that new batch, but it’s all heartbreaking.

As pointed out on Twitter though, that headline is a mess and a terrible framing of the story. It’s the abusive men that “took down” the label and framing it the way the headline does is bullshit victim blaming. The article itself is great, but oof that headline sucks.

I don't see it as victim blaming, unless you perceive that "burger records" stands for "fun and innocence and good times" -- I see it more like "dismantling the gross pedo-friendly patriarchy"

The writing is weird because they keep shifting terms and I'm not sure if they are meant to be read as synonymous or not ... like DIY/underground music scene does not just equal bands that are adjacent to Burger records and pop-punk / garage. It then dials back to "indie" in a few places, and it's like ... geez, I'm glad I don't live in SoCal or have much experience with the scene(s) down there, because otherwise I'd be annoyed all day by the semantic imprecision.

Xps. Yeah they're meaning it in the vain of "these survivors took down this organization of abusers", an empowering framing.

like if you were substitute "The Trump Administration" or "LAPD" for "Burger Records" -- how would that read to you?

I guess I can see both readings, but this below was one of the many tweets I saw that also expressed discomfort with it, which I think is an equally fair take:

When I came out against my abuser in the publishing world they ran articles about the woman who took down a publishing company. Uh, no, my abuser did that. I hate it when they frame us as “taking things down”.

— Hailey-Laine🐎🪐 (@henrytheeVth) January 24, 2021