Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

probably not, but I agree!

well, there's this, for starters

http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/biblio/books/books.html

Current edition of Uncut has some interesting stuff in on the band taht i don't think I've seen tapped before. new interview with Jonathon Richman who saw them 60 or 70x, One With Doug Yule , stuff on the final post-Lou line up.
Ties in with forthcoming documentary by Todd Haynes,

I posted about this in another thread, but yeah, it's a pretty great issue to my understanding. (I only read the Haynes interview, which someone posted.)

The Jonathan Richman's bit is a long piece written by him, not an interview. He's good! Entertaining and informative.

Richman's piece is worth the price of admission alone ...

Also cracked me up to see my name in the same font size at the bottom haha.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwmzNYcUUAAsgbd?format=jpg&name=medium

dude tyler congrats for real!

woo!

That’s my brother Tyler on typeface.

haha, thank you — it's really a glorified sidebar, but I'll take it!

that's AWESOME! seriously, that's a sick set of names to be bolded with!

Should have said:
That’s my brother Tyler on boldface.

Nice that you included a “Squeeze” track, that’s a first

Tyler is a world renowned Velvets expert so who else would Uncut turn to?

I don't know who those other people are, I'm only buying it for the TylerW list.

Totally random, but I was just channel surfing and briefly landed at the beginning of a Crossing Jordan rerun that was soundtracked by the '69 Live version of "We're Gonna Have A Real Good Time Together".

1969 Velvet Underground Live lost a lot of its value since its original release, thanks to official and bootleg releases, but it's still a great live album.

My favorite of the Yule era is still La Cave in 1968 (not long after he replaced Yule). I wish there was a soundboard recording where Lou's vocals and Mo's drums come in clearer, but "What Goes On" is amazing on there, especially Lou's insane guitar break towards the end. Great stuff from an Ornette Coleman fan, they had the good sense to include it on the Peel Slowly box from the '90s.

*not long after he replaced Cale

1969 Live is probably still my preferred way to hear that late '69 stuff — it's just ingrained in my skull at this point. But I'm glad to have it all. They should put out all the Cole Ave stuff officially, not sure why that hasn't happened yet.

*not long after he replaced Cale

Four days after he replaced Cale, I believe.

The sequencing on 1969 Live is perfect. The Matrix box is great and all, but the original album...it takes you on a journey.

They should put out all the Cole Ave stuff officially, not sure why that hasn't happened yet.

OTMFM

is there any other Cale era stuff reputed to exist?
THOught I heard taht he himself might be sitting on some stuff a few years ago.

INteresting noting Jonathan Richman's comments on his bassplaying since there is so little of it around. Would like to hear more.

There's some more Gymnasium stuff (I think another show, same setlist?), but I think anything else is likely audience recordings.

Yes, I've heard Cale himself has stuff which he isn't releasing.

Is Cale that interesting in releasing anything else? He was interviewed when the 45th anniversary box set for the debut was announced, and he didn't hide how he felt. He let out one big sigh and added that even the remastering was pointless because the "information" or "data" wasn't there, i.e. there wasn't anything else to draw out of the master tapes.

The one benefit I got was the "as it would have been" remix of "I can't stand it" (as opposed to the 'modern sheen' of the "VU" version).

There was a thought that the Velvets might reune when "VU" got issued, so the powers that be decided on a version that would have been a single, and sound in-place on the radio. Obviously, that didn't happen (I believe Eno was considered as a Lou stand in before it got dropped).

I have mentioned that before, it was in the VUAS magazine "What Goes On". Possibly conjecture, but.

The 45th anniversary box sets had useful material, but I don't think a box set was the best way of presenting them, it just made everything feel bloated. TBH, that's how I feel about most albums-expanded-into-box-sets. The concept made sense when it was done for jazz reissues (not all of them were great, but a LOT of them were). It turned out to be a bad idea for the Layla sessions, which was capped by a shitty remix of the album proper, but then seven years later Pet Sounds finally made the idea seem viable for rock music. That and the SMiLE sessions do make pretty good box sets, but those should've been the exceptions that proved the rule. Nearly everything else since has been burdened with worthless detritus or live performances that should've been spun off as standalone releases. (As much as I like the Replacements' Dead Man's Pop, that should have separated into three releases: the vinyl edition of the new album, a two-CD deluxe version, and two-CD live album.)

All four canonical VU albums made sense as double CD deluxe editions. VU and Another View deserve to be reissued and combined into one CD, and YES, most of those 1985 mixes really suck. Not all of them, I actually prefer the 1985 mix of "Stephanie Says," and some tracks did need a better or proper mix, which I'm guessing is why a handful of tracks were newly mixed for the 45th anniversary sets. But one CD and a double-LP edition with the best possible mixes would've made sense and could've been perfect for everyone. And that just leaves the live material which should be released on its own. The Matrix material now feels like a rip-off on the 45th anniversary set because it's just an incomplete version of their next archival release. Max's should have stayed its own thing. The 1966 Valleydale show and the Gymnasium tapes both could have been additional volumes of the Bootleg Series that never got past Volume 1 (the "Quine" tapes).

"Stephanie Says" and "Ride Into The Sun" sound much better in their 80s mixes imo.

Anyway, there's some talk of some "new" VU releases coming out this year to complement the Haynes doc, but I haven't heard any concrete details. They'll probably just be like "here's a glow in the dark version of the banana album."

Vinyl press of Fully Loaded Edition would be sweet

where tf is my "Sweet Sister Ray" release, that's what I want to know

Trying to remember, wasn't there some live performance or recording where Lou was sick so John sang most of the songs?

and YES, most of those 1985 mixes really suck.

The only one that kind of misses the mark for me is "I Can't Stand It" which, as Mark G mentioned, was supposedly put forth as a potential single. But there isn't a single track on either VU or Another View that has that same booming, gated snare sound. The 1985 mix of "Foggy Notion" is scarcely different from the later faux-1969 mix, and "Guess I'm Falling In Love" sounds fuller and more immediate in its '80s mix.

I think the '85 mix of "I Can't Stand It" led to a kind of false narrative that snowballed over the years into ALL THE '80S MIXES ARE HORRIBLE AND USE DRUM MACHINES AND ARE ACTUALLY PERFORMED BY THE CHUCK E. CHEESE ANIMATRONIC PUPPETS.

yeah definitely — for the most part, VU and Another View sound fine to me.

xxp here's some of that VU show with Cale on lead vocals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj6xiYUQF-c

angus maclise on drums, too. funny version, more like they're playing "waiting for the man" than "heroin" ...

hahaha Cale takes the opportunity to sing "I know just where I'm going" -- he hated that Lou sang "I don't know just where I'm going."

I think the '85 mix of "I Can't Stand It" led to a kind of false narrative that snowballed over the years into ALL THE '80S MIXES ARE HORRIBLE AND USE DRUM MACHINES AND ARE ACTUALLY PERFORMED BY THE CHUCK E. CHEESE ANIMATRONIC PUPPETS.

I know the point you're trying to make, but that's stretching the joke to ridiculousness. The mixes can feel a bit sterile because they sound so clean. That and the reverb is the extent of pretty much every complaint. I think the echo kind of works on "Lisa Says" (which was bone dry on the original demo), but elsewhere, it sounds like the kind of mismatch you often get when you mix anything decades after the fact. Could be the sound of the compression you're using or the character of the echo (not the effects, but the plate or chamber you're using or whether it's a digital plug-in).

Actually, it can feel like a mismatch on "Lisa Says" too when you play it next to other stuff of similar vintage, but on its own it's probably fine.

I think in 1985, the craze for period-authentic releases hadn't taken hold yet. Someone at the record company might also have hoped that "I Can't Stand It" was going to get heavy airplay next to "We Built This City" and needed the sonics to match it.

Tthanks for the embed! Here is some more info about those shows: https://dangerousminds.net/comments/that_time_in_1966_when_the_velvet_underground_played_a_series_of_shows_with

wow that cale "heroin" version is great, love the poppier vibe (no pun int) of the organ & drums

yeah almost sounds like ? and the Mysterians haha

I think in 1985, the craze for period-authentic releases hadn't taken hold yet. Someone at the record company might also have hoped that "I Can't Stand It" was going to get heavy airplay next to "We Built This City" and needed the sonics to match it.

I don't doubt it. And I don't think that line of thinking has disappeared - anything mixed or mastered for streaming today would brickwall it, regardless of when and how it was recorded. I think this came up in the Tom Petty thread, but that Wildflowers went the extra mile of doing something everyone should be doing - mastering vintage music differently for the format it was intended for. It was also based on decisions made with Petty before he died, but basically they wanted the stuff to fit in with anything streaming, but they understood the compromises they would have to make to do that, so they had three different masterings where they mainly differed by how much compression and limiting was applied. There's the "loud" one for streaming and downloads, a better and more dynamic one for the CD's, and then one without any additional limiting or compression (except what was in the original recording or mix) that they saved for hi-res downloads and I think the vinyl release.

I think those '80s mixes sound great. I guess "I Can't Stand It" ...stands out a little, but I like the effect. It never occurred to me that they're mismatched or whatever.

Is that Cale lead vocal thing the set from when Lou wa sin hospital with hepatitis. I think I heard that the central riff to Sister ray was chanced on during the gig.

Looking back, I don't think I'd even heard the Velvets before the early 80s (I heard lots of other 60s-70s rock as it was coming out, including some Lou singles and Rock 'n' Roll Animal, but not the Velvets) ... in the left-of-the-dial context where I first encountered them, that mix of "I Can't Stand It" fit right in. It was a long time before I realized the banana album is older than Are You Experienced? and Sgt. Pepper's.

that 80s mix of “can’t stand it” really threw me off, I was like “oh wow so the velvets invented martin hannett’s joy division sound too????”

Another View. It's only taken me 35 years to realise this is a pun.

Ha. Sort of got it from the beginning although I had to think about it for a second just now to recall it again.