the shamen: c/d

i would have a lot more room for finitribe if i ever came across their stuff via charity shops and/or bandcamp.

Unexpected Groovy Treat is indeed an unexpected groovy treat, not least this piece of future nostalgia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc-XWU793dw

I listened to the Utah Saints and I enjoyed them, particularly the second track, and I agree that this is pretty delicious Stadium House.

But it still seems to be missing the certain *something* that I get from The Shamen or The KLF, the anarchic sense of "WTF?!" that literally... *anything* could turn up in the next few beats? You have no idea where the track is going, if you're being taken to a gay cyber-rave in a darkened arch underneath some dodgy railway bridge; you could be taken to a remote island where they plan on burning Edward Woodward, a million quid, or quite possibly *you*. The next sample could be Terence McKenna, it could be the Dalai Lama, it could be Tammy Wynette floating up in an Egyptian sun-barge?

I don't know if it's the hippie-dom, the acid, a touch of surrealism or psychosis, but from Utah Saints, I get the feeling of, yeah, ooh, this music is kinda shimmery and psychedelic sounding. But from The Shamen, I get that bizarre 'how is this real' juxtaposition of the everyday and the extremely freaking weird, that genuinely *feels* like a psychedlic experience - or a break from reality - does?

I'll listen to the Finitribe next. ha ha oh god this is so adorably Scottish.

(OK, I guess I've kind of answered my own question here, in noting that the truly surreal / dreamlike / psychedelic experience is not the ~completley off the wall~ weird, but the absurd juxtaposition of the absolutely unexpected and weird, with the completely mundane and familiar. That it's not 'the Dalai Lama', it's the image of the Dalai Lama drinking vermillion tea from lotus leaves with your Great-Aunt Matilda. And I guess because of my own personal background, 'Scottish hippies' reads as the background childhood normality against which all of the other weirdness becomes psychedelic and surreal, rather than purely nonsensical.)

The Shamen and the KLF both had rock backgrounds, is probably the difference and brought that 'chuck a bit of this and see what happens' sensibility to it. Early house music does that as well but in a much more formalised structure, while early 90s/late 80s rock music was in quite a state of flux anyway.

I remember seeing The Shamen do Phorever People at Glastonbury (on TV) and I'm pretty sure they had the singer on a swing dressed up as Alice. They were quite happy to be as obvious as possible with the imagery when they wanted to. The Orb could have gone down a similar road and did on occasion but their focus was wayyyy more horizontal.

In contrast Utah Saints were quite content making gigantic stadium sized bosh which probably has more in common spiritually with EDM than the other acts here. Even their logo looked like a cheap casualwear logo from the time.

I remember seeing The Shamen do Phorever People at Glastonbury (on TV)

That reminds I remember seeing The Shamen on stage at Glastonbury and my mate I was with either convinced or for some reason trying to convince me that it was actually happening on TV. LOL.

I remember seeing The Shamen do Phorever People at Glastonbury (on TV) and I'm pretty sure they had the singer on a swing dressed up as Alice.

This sounds amazing, but doesn't seem to appear in the televised coverage? The singer does have long blonde extensions, but unfortunately there's no swing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U7E8QLUkZs

Unless they did more than one Glasto? That's entirely possible.

(Please could the cheekboney dude with the filter sweeps on his Roland synth be sent to my tent? kthxbai)

I was at Glastonbury that year but have no idea if we saw The Shamen or not. Think that was the first year they had a dedicated Dance Tent and we spent most of the weekend in there

I strongly associate "Weekend" by DJ Dick with The Shamen because both were frequently played on the dance mix show I listened to religiously in high school/early college (Depth Probe by Kevin Cole; I think there is a Soundcloud or Mixcloud archive out there somewhere)

i see anti saints rockism has reared its ugly head!!!

Bosh rockism.

Come on and bosh me, Amadeus!

Kevin Cole, wow. Well, now I'm a member of the Rev 105 Facebook group.

Let the record state I am 100% in favour of Utah Saints but they're neither psychedelic nor art-prankster enough for what we're talking about here, they're closer to The Prodigy really than anything Branwell's talking about.

What about, say, "Temple of Dreams"?

Temple Of Dreams is great stadium house, as are the Utah Saints singles - searching for more stuff as elevated art-pop as the KLF or committedly psychedelic as the Shamen is never going to pay off. Think of them as satisfyingly better than Scooter, not disappointing for not being as good as one of the best bands in the history of the universe.

This was also great (if not quite as good as Temple of Dreams)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clIqSMrsRNw

i played the MESSIAH album this week in honour of this thread revival.
its not that good.

See the only thing that comes close, for me, is the Future Sound of London, who have the utopian cyber-psychedelia thing down - but they’re not even remotely Stadium House.

But that’s the kind of hippie art-prank vibe I’m looking for!

I tend to think of FSOL as blissed-out ecoterrorists

SHPONGLE ?
they were all over the hippy/cyber thing.
the album i have is totally Shamen via ambient/techno/dub,
but without the pop tunes.

https://www.discogs.com/Shpongle-Nothing-Lasts-But-Nothing-Is-Lost/master/7831

Ha! Shpongle!

Had completely forgotten about those dudes. Spent a lot of time stoned listening to those albums

Now I want to play the Opus III album

Messiah were basically a decent C-grade 'ardcore group who did a good imitation of Utah Saints' imitation of the KLF for one single iirc

can anyone remember what the Fini Tribe track with the church bells samples was called? had a quick look thru YT but no luck so far.

Come on sic, "There Is No Law" bangs

nevermind, found it. still sounds pretty great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNzr2qUmfgk

Come on sic, "There Is No Law" bangs

I said decent!

That's the one on the original Balearic Beats compilation?

Shpongle. It's weird because it's presented in the way that functional drug music is and sort of marketed to that crowd, (and there's something Infind culty about music that's made for "psychedelic peoole", even though that's also not really fair because it's pretty good music.

But then it's also not at all earnest in the same way as The Shamen. Maybe that's just humour. I don't trust those elves.

och, sorry for garbles. * something I find culty about music that's made for "psychedelic people".

Shpongle and loads of other psychedelic dub/techno is awesome but nobody on ILM listens to that stuff.

start a thread, there are probably enough people like me who have one Shpongle album and are curious

let me rephrase that: please start a thread

Am also curious.

Yeah, 'without the big pop tunes' was, I think the thing that did for me when I tried Schprongle.

There is always this weird dichotomy, regarding 'psychedelic' music, in that it describes two different phenomena - a) music which *recreates* the psychedelic experience in some way, either sonically or lyrically and b) music which sounds really, really amazing while having a psychedelic experience. They are not necessarily the same thing, at all.

Shpongle, sorry, I have been listening to Germans too much.

I think there's a third category for 'psychedelic' music, or that some music is presented in such a way. That is to say music or sound intended to facilitate or guide, or whatever a 'psychedelic experience', or particular 'states'

As in, it's not about the music simulating a psychedelic effect, or "sounding" amazing on psychedelics so much as what it promotes in um, synergy.

Psy- genres (trance, chill, dub) are by definition presented as being in that category to some extent, usually much more so than say house or techno. Some New Age type stuff is entirely over there of course, although not be necessarily with overt drug implications.

So Shpongle is somewhat in that category by association and presentation and the scene it's from but those guys are also clearly about the music for its own sake. I think it's also in the second category if you like it, and somewhat in the first but not as much as it might think it is.

I would be into a dedicated early 90s hippy techno thread (visuals positively encouraged).

Is that a rockist justification for Shpongle? Oh yeah it's ostensibly drug music but actually the composition is really good... But it's not a dichotomy because composition and production can be really cool and effective as well as appreciable in its own right.

I don't mind anyway, rehabilitate rockism.

I guess I articulated my categories badly, because I see your "third category" as part of my second. So there is:

a) music which attempts to replicate or demonstrate the drug experience to listeners

b) music intended for use (sounding cool, guiding a trip, whatever) while having a drug experience

I haven't used any kind of psychedelic in about 15 years, so category b is no longer as interesting to me as it once was - except for the bizarre coincidence that category b music is often really really *good* at shutting up the part of my brain that I need to shut up and be quiet so I can program!

As far as trying to recreate the experience of psychedelics go tho I think there's also always a "recreating the sound of what the sound of recreating psychedelics is like" going on. To try and say that less confusingly the experience of psychedelics always affects your perception no matter what you're listening to/looking at etc. So Psych music in the very broadest sense always falls back on a set of tropes that are "psychedelic" because we're used to associating them with psychedelia, and that's not the same thing as the experience of tripping, which is often influenced or engaged with those tropes but is way broader and more fluid and stranger in ways most Psych music never explores

To come back to the thread at hand I think some of what you were describing as the psychedelic weirdnesses or disjunctions of Shamen records in their imperial phase comes from jamming together non-traditional elements into the psychedelia, the weird irruptions of pop and bangingness and provincial nightclub "cheese" - cheese is life, obv - that snuggle up alongside the woowoo Acid elements

I don't think that's unique to the Shamen tbh but the big hits exemplify it. The Stadium is also the uncool nightclub

Where does Mr C stand in the pantheon of British rappers? I mean there's a Godfather of Grime title going spare now Wiley is cancelled.

Look, Credit to the Nation is putting out new stuff at the moment

I guess I articulated my categories badly, because I see your "third category" as part of my second. So there is:

a) music which attempts to replicate or demonstrate the drug experience to listeners

b) music intended for use (sounding cool, guiding a trip, whatever) while having a drug experience

Sure, although that now leaves out the broader part of category b) which is music that sounds good on drugs without necessarily being "intended" to achieve that purpose.

Which is partly what I was seeing as marking category c), with intention also being sometimes about presentation. I think that's something that defines psy-x genres, certainly in relation to techno which is artier, or house which is maybe rootsier and more social etc. Or even trance or hardcore rave which are more specifically about E. ?

Where does Mr C stand in the pantheon of British rappers? I mean there's a Godfather of Grime title going spare now Wiley is cancelled.

Dunno about C but Colin's (I assume?) hushed almost spoken delivery on En-Tact prefigures Del Naja on Blue Lines. You could say. Who the two original rappers in Make It Mine V2?

Double R = Rhyme & Reason = Anthony Lennon & Yinka Charles

there's also always a "recreating the sound of what the sound of recreating psychedelics is like" going on

There's also a similar but more interesting feedback dynamic where it is "making music that attempts to recreate the sound / effect of hearing music that attempts to recreate the sound and effect of hearing music on drugs, on drugs".