It's The Pleasure Princi-POLL -- ILM Artist Poll #103 -- JANET JACKSON Results Thread

the top ten (really top twenty (really top thirty (really top forty (really top fifty)))) is unfuckwithable.

Yes!

absolutely convinced she's the best pop star there ever was now

Double yes!

BTW, no shade on Spottie, but I've done a Spotify playlist that ranks them from #1 down... https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5pIVl2jRHvTwgdJd07BC55?si=YKT0cgH0QYqPUE2_dGup3w

For years I've tried to figure out my aversion to Discipline. It's competent and, as uberweiss notes, generically good for the most part. Then I realized what made it generic: Jackson has no writing credits. I've always been fascinated by how the Jackson-Jam-Lewis axis writes songs. But when her name's not in the credits I can hear the absence.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 8 August 2020 16:16 (five hours ago) link

I feel like this is an explanation that makes sense as a retrofitted explanation and perhaps with respect to "Feedback" (which wears its contemporary trend-chasing on its sleeve) specifically, and maybe "LUV".

But songs like "Can't B Good" or "Greatest X Ever" or "Let Me Know" feel incredibly of a piece with the songwriting approach of the previous three albums (and in the case of the first and third of those, are better than most of the material on the previous two albums), and something like "Rock With U" is spot-on frothy Janet. Is there a more Janet line for a disco bop than "Strobe lights make everything.... sexier..."?

It feels like a more Janet album (as well as a better album) than 20 y.o., which then somewhat undermines the proposition that the issue is writing credits.

absolutely convinced she's the best pop star there ever was now

I reached the conclusion privately at the time but quashed it because #auteurism.

I'm even less a fan of 20 y.o.

Even as measured against her most obvious contemporaneous rival, I don't consider her the equal of Madonna.

Her reticence as a public figure and disinterest in theory and self-mythology may work against her, and I like not love many of her videos, but as a singles force between 1986-2004 she matches Madonna.

i would vote for Janet over Madonna for total body of work but it's close

One phenomenon I noticed: when Madonna got restless she left Patrick Leonard, still her best co-songwriter/co-producer, for untried talents. Janet, however, had Jam-Lewis, who revealed themselves to be as protean as Madonna, up to any challenge. Just think how "Nasty" and "Runaway," or "Rhythm Nation" and "Rope Burn" took place along the same evolutionary track!

Plus “Empty” and “This Time” and “If”!

Haha, I just noticed that in addition to landing an overperforming 3rd place finish, "Empty," like "Deeper and Deeper" in the Madonna poll, got 8 first-place votes, the most of any song.

janet over madonna is pretty easy for me but i've never been quite convinced of madonna's greatness. very good, sure, but not as consistent or exciting as janet at her best

janet over mj is even easier - the good part of his discography really isn't that big and i was never able to love thriller - overexposure as a child means i would be fine never hearing "thriller" or "beat it" again and i'm not exactly inclined to try to love it now for the obvious reasons

prince is wayy closer but i'm inclined to give janet the edge at the moment just for range?

james brown, stevie wonder & little richard all predate the modern 80s-onward pop star model so i wouldn't even really try to compare them

now that you’ve all had time to digest the Janet Jackson/g poll, maybe folx here are up for a different kind of poll:

🇳🇬 NAIJA SPECIAL: which of these *seven* current high-profile Nigerian hit songs is the best one? please help me decide

(I know I’ve plugged this poll here before, but I still think at least some (more) of you might really enjoy it. If you’re looking for way in it could be Tiwa Savage, who’s worked for or with people like George Michael, Whitney Houston, Mary J Blige, Chaka Khan, Fantasia, and Chuck Harmony during the UK- and US-centered first part of her long career. Also, Ciara bit one of her songs for “Freak Me”!)

(sorry, I honestly thought I would be able to find a direct link between them, but no joy - okay, they were both on the roster for MTV’s 2018 Europe Music Award - but do yourselves a favour and take a little trip to that other Rhythm Nation!)

(Janet fans also might find lots to love in Niniola, and then of course there’s... Okay, okay, I’ll stop now and remain forever silent)

putting my ballot together for this poll was the most fun I had with music all year, if not ever. good memories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqXT3FVPgLU

My Spotify 2020 recap had Janet very much at the top of my most-played artists. That could likely have been true in any year tho.

Compare and contrast the poll results with The Guardian's list of the 30 best Janet Jackson tracks. Four of the top five are the same, albeit in a different order.

Janet Jackson’s 30 best songs – ranked

I'm absolutely at peace with that top 5.

One from each of her four imperial-phase albums plus "Love Will Never Do" as the bridge between the '80s and '90s eras.

holy shit Empty at #5

She's selling her wedding dress? If it's a marriage that ended acrimoniously, I guess so, but still strikes me as a little unseemly.

(If the money is earmarked for charity, obviously very different.)

That's a surprisingly great list / write-up. Nice to see some thoughtful coverage of more recent tracks e.g. "Rock With U", "Should've Known Better", "The Great Forever".

Agreed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNh8c-yi7bI

<3

I HOPE I'M NOT BEING TOO CRASS HERE

. . . but those are cock rings.

(seriously tho, very cool video)

guys the 4-part Janet documentary that just aired on Lifetime is very good. I am constantly pinching myself that she’s sitting there on camera talking about her life

SO much vhs footage <3

I missed it but hope to see it at some point. Saw folks commenting elsewhere that she chooses not to discuss various things especially controversial ones.

well yeah, she’s calling the shots- she’s so private, there’s no way she’d agree to do it at all unless she had a say on what goes in & what doesnt

they address mj somewhat but it’s brief & very much the party line as far as the family is concernex

don’t go in expecting a hbo deep research independent investigation bc its def not that. there’s a reason it’s on Lifetime

the fact that she’s saying anything at all about anything is the selling point

Entirely coincidentaly I've had the Control Remixes album on perambulation rotation and have been massively enjoying (among the rest) The Pleasure Principle (Shep Pettibone Long Vocal Mix).

yessss!

i had a whole Janet dance party yesterday after watching all 4 doc episodes :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmZGQ0xT0zg

been vibing to this so hard the past week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT28f3lY-MY

A really great one.

57 today. Played "Escapade" for a grade 7 class. Either too apathetic to raise a hand (a real possibility with this class) or indicative of how much things have changed: no response to "Anyone know her music?"

I appreciate this specific effort because "Escapade" is godhead, but I'm curious ... do you let your students get cracks at picking media to share?

What do they think about Madonna? Janet Jackson has an amazing catalog of hits, but she's never been anywhere near the dominant personality of, say, Madonna. Further factor in the fallout from the Super Bowl and subsequent semi exile, and maybe that explains why she has less resonance with really young people?

Genuinely didn't realize that "If" was earmarked as the first single. I think the swap worked in both songs' favor:

that's the way love goes, indeed. pic.twitter.com/TkJIWxBDz4

— Mike Servito (@mikeservito) May 15, 2023

I agree with that

do you let your students get cracks at picking media to share?

Well, they're not my students--I'm just in as a supply. When I had my own class, we did lots of stuff where they picked something for an assignment. But for Today in History, then and now, I pick whatever song/film clip I want to play.

I'm sure most know at least something about Madonna. (I also suspect a few in here know at least something about Janet Jackson. They're just not the most forthcoming class.)

My first choice, by the way, was "Love Will Never Do Without You." Looked at the video...nope.

The irony is the best way to connect them with Janet would probably be through the history of YouTube, but of course that is not appropriate for school.

LET'S GO

I appreciate the effort to expose students to film and music that aren't part of their daily diet, but on the other hand if a teacher had shown my 7th grade class a video of, say, Cleo Laine on her 57th birthday I'm not sure any of us would have had a lot of context to respond. But who knows what stimuli will stick with them in the future.

I get that, obviously. Her last Top 10 single seems to have been 2001. I started teaching in 1991--it would have been like me showing them something from 1969 then.

I don't think the Cleo Laine analogy is particularly apt, though; Janet Jackson has a lot more to do with they music they listen to (if they do...) then Cleo Laine had to do with the music you listened to in grade 7. (At least that's my guess.) Anyway, you either show them or you don't; to me, the exposure is much better than deciding "They won't be interested in this" preemptively. (Also what keeps the job fun for me.)

But who knows what stimuli will stick with them in the future.

That's it. By and large, when I've run into students years later, the two things they'll remember from their year with me are these Today in Historys and going for ice cream at the end of the year. They certainly don't remember me trying to pretend like I knew something about science.

About time!

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/janet-jackson-janet-album-deluxe-anniversary-editions/

I can't believe I only placed "Throb" 40th on my ballot!