Uber Eats is bigger than the rides biz now https://t.co/o7VuMVITuF— kate conger (@kateconger) August 6, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 6 August 2020 20:19 (three years ago) link
I wanted to know what Uber and Lyft would do if forced to comply with AB 5. Hereβs what I learned: https://t.co/dzkxFMrrtS— kate conger (@kateconger) August 18, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Tuesday, 18 August 2020 15:52 (three years ago) link
christ, what assholes
In a cruel and petulant move, Uber just announced they are shutting down service in California on Thursday. Faced with a mandate to treat their workers fairly, they opted instead to leave them unemployed β in the middle of a pandemic and a recession. pic.twitter.com/SuTvCOUDWT— Mike Bonin (@mikebonin) August 19, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 06:59 (three years ago) link
Haven't been in a rideshare since the beginning of March and can't imagine when I'll next be in one (that said, we have a car and I also can't imagine when I'll next travel so the situations where I'd actually be inclined to use one of these services are not really coming up. This WSJ article (the few sentences of it before paywall) says Uber ridership is a quarter of what it was this time last year.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 15:45 (three years ago) link
oops forgot link https://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-ridership-fails-to-recover-as-pandemic-drives-another-big-loss-11596744389
on monday i waited 30 minutes on a busy brooklyn avenue and saw one (occupied) cab. called a car service and was told there was a 45-minute wait. so i finally had to sign up for lyft just to get home ffs
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 19 August 2020 16:28 (three years ago) link
And did that work? Because I would think that as demand for the service drops, so would supply as drivers become less willing to drive around looking for fares and getting even less $$/hr while being exposed to who knows who.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 16:50 (three years ago) link
But I am not in a big city where the alternative to rideshare is crowded public transport; maybe ridership isn't down as much in brooklyn? But if so, why no cabs?
it did work; the lyft arrived in like seven minutes.
i assume the lack of cabs was due to the pandemic? this was the first time i'd used any kind of transportation at all since march, so i dunno. there were plenty of people and private cars out and about though
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:25 (three years ago) link
cabdrivers are not wasting gas roaming around looking for fares. This also means fewer available for dispatch.rideshare drivers can park until a fare pops up.
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:31 (three years ago) link
I guess I would have thought you just can't make enough money unless you're spending most of your time actually driving fares but my grasp of how the economics of this works on the driver's side is not that strong.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 17:36 (three years ago) link
From my limited experience, most rideshare drivers have pivoted to restaurant delivery and personal shopping.
another anecdote:I stopped by a grocery store that prepandemic had serviced a downtown/financial neighborhood, and it had been converted almost entirely into a personal shopper depot. My wife and I were pretty much the only customers who weren't messengers/couriers/delivery drivers. There was a line for their pickup/checkout that was like 25 deep and not a single soul in the regular line. It was pretty bizarre, but I'd probably go back based on how quickly I was able to get in/out of there.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 19:53 (three years ago) link
Kara swisher was a good get for the times
βWeβll see how it goes for you in California,β @karaswisher saysβWish us luck,β Dara says.βNo,β Swisher responds.— Andrew J. Hawkins πππ²π΄ (@andyjayhawk) August 19, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 19 August 2020 20:53 (three years ago) link
So can someone in Cali explain how the prop 22 vote went down as it did?
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 5 November 2020 16:39 (three years ago) link
$
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 16:45 (three years ago) link
^^^^^
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 5 November 2020 16:48 (three years ago) link
That and labor is relatively weak in California. I might live to regret saying this, but I donβt think itβs going to be so easy (just spend $) for them to repeat this in all other Democratic states.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 20:19 (three years ago) link
In other words
I've seen a lot of autopsies about Prop 22 that focused on the historic spending and the flood of mailers/ads/messaging that it bought. But at some point, I think it's worth taking a look at what labor did (or didn't do) to fight for the No campaign. https://t.co/J4rLcsZwRk— o...k (@kateconger) November 5, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 20:20 (three years ago) link
If you think labor came out swinging to support No on 22, its worth revisiting @noamscheiber's reporting on the AB 5 negotiations last summer and seeing how fractious it was, even then: https://t.co/FcQSEVXfNZ— o...k (@kateconger) November 5, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 20:22 (three years ago) link
Prop 22 exists because a new stricter labor law went into effect in CA as of Jan 2020 (AB5) which made it so there were very few exceptions for employers to avoid having to pay workers as employees (which include payroll taxes, workers comp, minimum wage requirements, and health benefits, potentially). I would not be surprised if a larger percentage of workers in California were paid as independent contractors compared to workers in other states. The state agencies that enforce worker classification (employee vs contractor) are very underfunded and there are a lot of employers paying workers as contractors that no way would they "pass" even the loosest test of worker classification.
There was a lot of pushback to AB5 and not just from the Uber/Lyft/Doordash companies. A lot of musicians, writers, and other arts and media workers were going to have to be classified as employees, and a lot of them didn't like that, and their employers liked that even less.
But Uber/Lyft/Doordash spent a very large amount of money to put Prop 22 on the ballot as an endrun around AB5 and lot of that was spent on advertising that emphasized that workers preferred to be contractors, and that regulating their employment by classifying them as employees would make them suffer. A lot of the "drivers" in the ads were POC and likely encouraged on-the-fence centrists and liberals to vote for Prop 22.
Whether the folks who had problems with AB5 who are "gig workers" of other types voted for Prop 22, idk, but I wouldn't be surprised.
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 20:32 (three years ago) link
Very helpful, thank you!
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 5 November 2020 21:02 (three years ago) link
yeah thx sarahell
How much of AB5 did P22 gut? was it just a carve-out or did it defang the new labor law more broadly?
― flopson, Thursday, 5 November 2020 21:16 (three years ago) link
lol it was just for them --
Classifies drivers for app-based transportation (rideshare) and delivery companies as βindependent contractors,β not βemployees,β unless company: sets driversβ hours, requires acceptance of specific ride and delivery requests, or restricts working for other companies.
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 21:19 (three years ago) link
prop 22 was a response to AB5, but they won't wait for other states to pass an ab5 to try to do similar things elsewhere.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 21:44 (three years ago) link
oh of course not -- they are "on a roll" ... ugh.
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 21:49 (three years ago) link
Never bumped for this but seems appropriate to bumphttps://www.theverge.com/2020/12/7/22158745/uber-selling-autonomous-vehicle-business-aurora-innovation
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 1 March 2021 02:16 (three years ago) link
I thought I heard a funny quote from the Uber CEO about throwing away a couple of billion on the autonomous cars but all I can find are rah rah quotes about the spinoff deal.
― Joe Biden Stan Account (milo z), Monday, 1 March 2021 02:33 (three years ago) link
HA ha
smart money on this is to buy the dip because DOL won't be able to make this happen anyways https://t.co/bvD5A549A9— Matt Bruenig (@MattBruenig) April 29, 2021
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 29 April 2021 20:40 (two years ago) link
Let's hope DOL actually follows through, I won't hold my breath
at the least they're in trouble in the short term because the job market is tight and no one wants these shitty jobs https://www.businessinsider.com/why-uber-lyft-expensive-taking-long-driver-shortage-2021-4?op=1
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 29 April 2021 21:33 (two years ago) link
The Prop 22 campaign drew attention to the harsh working conditions and meager wages drivers can face on the job. And for some drivers, it exhausted any goodwill they might have toward the apps, which are now in need of workers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/05/07/uber-lyft-drivers/
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Friday, 7 May 2021 18:42 (two years ago) link
I probably said this upthread somewhere, but I remain baffled by this company whose entire business model is based on underpaying cab drivers and not covering any of their expenses and still can't come remotely close to making a profit when all they actually do is provide an app and skim money off the top. Like if cab companies and car services earn a profit how the fuck do these guys not?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 7 May 2021 20:21 (two years ago) link
It's like losing money on a protection racket.
part of the answer is that they spend an average of $500,000 per engineer per year (https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Uber,Lyft&track=Software%20Engineer, and you can double those numbers to account for benefits and real estate and organizational overheads), and in uber's case they have an engineering headcount of about 5000. so that's 2.5bn a year on engineering. for an iphone app.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Friday, 7 May 2021 20:46 (two years ago) link
ya i've always been confused about uber's unit economics because of stuff like that
― flopson, Friday, 7 May 2021 21:44 (two years ago) link
iβve said it before but my local minicab company has an app and it basically looks like uberβs and it works great. you see the little picture of the car coming towards you and everything. i mean it wouldnβt work in LA but how often am i in LA.
― One Of The Bad Guys (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 May 2021 22:29 (two years ago) link
Yes but does your local minicab company have a self driving division
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Friday, 7 May 2021 22:41 (two years ago) link
neither does Uber, they sold it
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 7 May 2021 22:56 (two years ago) link
They spend a lot on lobbying too, no?
― rob, Friday, 7 May 2021 22:59 (two years ago) link
That's another great thing about my minicab company - lobbying costs are very low.
― One Of The Bad Guys (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 May 2021 23:05 (two years ago) link
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Friday, 7 May 2021 23:26 (two years ago) link
things seem to be going well here
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/16/tech/uber-software-bug-drivers-charged/index.html
― 80's hair metal , and good praise music ! (DJP), Wednesday, 16 June 2021 17:01 (two years ago) link
Fares have been bonkers in Chicago. City cabs, which used to seem expensive, have fares at about half the price.
― too cool for zen talk (Eazy), Wednesday, 16 June 2021 22:46 (two years ago) link
Same in NY. Easily 5 x what they were pre COVID.
― calstars, Wednesday, 16 June 2021 23:08 (two years ago) link
(Cue someone to explain why like weβre all 10 years oldβ¦zzzzz)
― calstars, Wednesday, 16 June 2021 23:09 (two years ago) link
wow https://mostlysignssomeportents.tumblr.com/post/659150190242054144/end-of-the-line-for-uber
― assert (matttkkkk), Thursday, 12 August 2021 02:24 (two years ago) link
Might have been mentioned upthread but while Uber et al ultimately can fuck off, one thing I've consistently seen for years in mentions on social media -- predominantly but not solely from Black posters here in America, and very consistently from them, NYC being a key focus but not the sole -- is that, at the least anecdotally but likely more systematically, before the basic innovation of smartphone car service ordering happened calling for a taxi, per said posters, was at best sporadic especially if the calls were from 'bad' neighborhoods, real or imagined. I have no reason to doubt that at all, and essentially by Uber et al becoming huge and forcing the official industries to adapt -- Flywheel, YoTaxi, etc -- that broke that pattern. So the legacy will always have to be nuanced at the least; the collapse in subsidization and more that Doctorow identifies is clear and much of the overall legacy eats, and yet.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 12 August 2021 02:37 (two years ago) link
That would be a worthy legacy for sure; the post does address it: "Itβs true that Uber had upsides, like bringing transport to underserved communities of colorβββbut because Uber was always doomed, this was a temporary mirage that would strand those communities again."
― assert (matttkkkk), Thursday, 12 August 2021 02:39 (two years ago) link
On that front, while I understand his pessimism, I'm also willing to bet that said formal taxi companies are more on the 'uh let's not leave obvious money on the table here' tip now. We'll have to see.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 12 August 2021 02:42 (two years ago) link
The rideshares may have fucked up by ensuring that the legislature couldn't legislate
Breaking: CA Superior Court judge finds Prop 22 UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!! pic.twitter.com/R4gFoDrs0n— Veena Dubal (@veenadubal) August 21, 2021
― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 21 August 2021 00:57 (two years ago) link