rolling #metoo thread for sexual harassment in the music industry so no one misses out when artists we don't give a fuck about like Tim Westwood and Bassnectar get caught

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Kweli has gone nuts

akm, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 03:23 (three years ago) link

is the colbert booker related to legendary former mayor of Providence, RI?

sarahell, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 18:44 (three years ago) link

I thought he was related to the senator from New Jersey.

peace, man, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 19:02 (three years ago) link

is the colbert booker related to legendary former mayor of Providence, RI?

― sarahell, Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:44 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't think he's related to Ben McOsker

The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 5 August 2020 19:19 (three years ago) link

Buddy Cianci ??

sarahell, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 20:11 (three years ago) link

I admit that was also my first thought when I saw his name.

Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Wednesday, 5 August 2020 20:28 (three years ago) link

wasn't the story that he stubbed out his cigar on the body of a dude his wife was fucking? ...

sarahell, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 20:39 (three years ago) link

Attacked him with a fireplace poker, IIRC

Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Wednesday, 5 August 2020 20:45 (three years ago) link

(Or maybe I’m mixing up two different stories? R.I.P., Buddy)

Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Wednesday, 5 August 2020 20:46 (three years ago) link

Btw, here’s another case from today’s news: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2020-08-05/takeoff-migos-accused-sexual-assault

Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Wednesday, 5 August 2020 21:15 (three years ago) link

yeah, bumped the koz thread for that. not to diminish anything but it just seemed like a matter of time with him, tbh

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 13 August 2020 15:43 (three years ago) link

the laura snapes incident was a fairly clear advance warning

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 13 August 2020 15:46 (three years ago) link

not to diminish anything but it just seemed like a matter of time with him, tbh

― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:43 AM

i'm glad this occurred to someone else too. the guy has always given me the most uncomfortable vibe.

Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Thursday, 13 August 2020 15:50 (three years ago) link

really if you were any sort of rhp/skm fan at all just knowing the whole history with katy was enough to conclude that mark kozelek is a bad person, so like, i'm also not surprised, but incidentally i hate being not surprised about this shit

also the details were worse than i had anticipated

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 13 August 2020 15:59 (three years ago) link

well yeah. i'm the worst kind of cynic: simultaneously not surprised, but disappointed all the same.

Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Thursday, 13 August 2020 16:03 (three years ago) link

enh, "disappointed" feels like the wrong word there.

upset, angry, disgusted. . . yes, those all work too.

Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Thursday, 13 August 2020 16:04 (three years ago) link

I didn't/don't know the Katy story tbh

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 13 August 2020 16:07 (three years ago) link

I stand in total solidarity with these brave women. Grateful to Pitchfork for dedicating resources to this. Shame on everyone who let him creep back into their coverage or enabled him professionally in the past five years. Hope it was worth it https://t.co/sdQr3EryC9

— Laura Snapes (@laurasnapes) August 13, 2020

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 13 August 2020 16:10 (three years ago) link

Nice choice of picture there.

Boring, Maryland, Thursday, 13 August 2020 16:21 (three years ago) link

I didn't/don't know the Katy story tbh

― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, August 13, 2020 9:07 AM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's not something i can provide a narrative with concrete details about, but i remember learning years ago that the relationship mark kozelek had with katy (of "katy's song," who he described as his "muse," and who he later memorialized in "lost verses" after she died of cancer) was pretty fucked up

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 13 August 2020 16:21 (three years ago) link

right, the gory details probably don't need to go itt but I can't imagine being koz's "muse" was any kind of picnic

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 13 August 2020 16:36 (three years ago) link

I thought it was well-established that Kozelek is an ass.

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 13 August 2020 17:24 (three years ago) link

him and the modest mouse dude seem like two of the same kind of unpleasant.

speaking of: whatever happened to with the modest mouse guy's allegations?

Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Thursday, 13 August 2020 17:27 (three years ago) link

I've known several women who slept with Mark, back in the late 90's. Those were consensual encounters but the common talk afterward was that he was 'creepy', it was 'unpleasant', and there was something just off about him. Some of my best friends shared the Painters practice space in the early days and they fucking hated Mark (everyone liked Anthony and Jerry though). I knew someone who also toured as their guitar tech; I never talked to him about that but his feelings toward RHP changed rather drastically when that was over. All this to say: unsurprising, disappointing, but everything he's released since Among the Leaves has been unlistenable to me and the fact that it sells and he continues to throw it out there tells me his ego has not been in check.

akm, Thursday, 13 August 2020 17:30 (three years ago) link

I forgot all about the Modest Mouse allegations. I have a vague recollection that it wound up being poorly substantiated or something; but I don't remember it turning out to be a complete lie like the Bright Eyes allegation was. Surprise: Koz loved Modest Mouse, maybe now we know why.

akm, Thursday, 13 August 2020 17:31 (three years ago) link

RHP and 4ad groups on FB predictably horrified aside from what appear to be mostly men from Latin countries who think all sexual assault allegations are always false. Machismo dies hard in some cultures.

akm, Thursday, 13 August 2020 17:50 (three years ago) link

There’s being «an ass», and then there’s something like this shit. But yeah, not really surprised I guess

Mule, Thursday, 13 August 2020 17:55 (three years ago) link

xposts

Mule, Thursday, 13 August 2020 17:55 (three years ago) link

Respect to Amy Zimmerman and Pitchfork for doing a careful job with the story.

jmm, Thursday, 13 August 2020 18:16 (three years ago) link

BTW thinking on those Killers stories mentioned earlier in the thread, this came up today too:

In case anyone was wondering. The last time I spoke with anyone with the Killers’ legal team was the day their press release came out. They would not let me read it & only got a copy of it from the bbc because they asked me for comment. 1/

— Chez Cherrie (@ofcherrie) August 13, 2020

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 13 August 2020 18:21 (three years ago) link

I think I read this interview with Isaac Brock from Modest Mouse when it came out and at the time I took what he said about the ‘99 rape allegation face value. I have totally different take these days of course. https://www.avclub.com/modest-mouse-1798208359"> https://www.avclub.com/modest-mouse-1798208359

This Is Not An ILX Username (LaMonte), Thursday, 13 August 2020 18:25 (three years ago) link

Here’s a 2015 piece that goes into detail about the circumstances around the allegation and its coverage in The Stranger.

Washington Foosball Team (morrisp), Thursday, 13 August 2020 18:42 (three years ago) link

this seems like it fits here although i can't quite get to the bottom of it

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BrendonUrieSpeakUp&src=trend_click

global tetrahedron, Thursday, 13 August 2020 21:34 (three years ago) link

ah! well,

CW // sexual assault

Context for '#BrendonUrieSpeakUp' trending: People are coming forward to say P!ATD's Brendon Urie has touched them inappropriately. They are also upset with his silence on the Zack Hall situation (misogyny, pedophilia, sexual assault against 12 yr olds).

— I explain trends and save you scrolls. (@iexplaintrends) August 13, 2020

global tetrahedron, Thursday, 13 August 2020 21:55 (three years ago) link

Whatever it was, it's gone now.

peace, man, Thursday, 13 August 2020 23:43 (three years ago) link

I'm not sure whether reposting that 2015 piece on Brock is supposed to exonerate him or damn him, because it is so full of such classic 101 Victim Blaming techniques that I had to peace out before reaching the end?

Branwell with an N, Friday, 14 August 2020 07:37 (three years ago) link

I was just addressing the “whatever happened to...” question with a relatively recent piece that also links to the original Stranger article (for context). You’re welcome to post a different one.

Get your filthy hands off my asp (morrisp), Friday, 14 August 2020 15:38 (three years ago) link

Maybe I'm a dickhead, but I'd love to see the Modest Mouse dude get his comeuppance fairly soon.

Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Saturday, 15 August 2020 00:46 (three years ago) link

Have there been any whispers about bad behaviour by him apart from that one 1999 story?

Steppin' RZA (sic), Saturday, 15 August 2020 00:58 (three years ago) link

There’s other “bad behavior” mentioned in that Buzzfeed article (drug abuse; a DUI with a passenger in the car), but I haven’t heard about anything else related to sexual assault.

Get your filthy hands off my asp (morrisp), Saturday, 15 August 2020 01:04 (three years ago) link

drug abuse?? poor form for someone in a prominent rock band

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 15 August 2020 01:54 (three years ago) link

Well, that’s why I used quotes, lol

Get your filthy hands off my asp (morrisp), Saturday, 15 August 2020 02:03 (three years ago) link

also (DUI aside) the drug abuse detailed in the story is being like 20 years old and tripping in the woods iirc

Steppin' RZA (sic), Saturday, 15 August 2020 02:12 (three years ago) link

To amend my post above, I realIzed that the Buzzfeed piece doesn’t actually link to The Stranger article (“Immodest Mouse: Singer Accused of Rape,” 3/18/99) — apparently it’s been taken down. When it references the article, it links to a book about Modest Mouse, and then to a 4/1/99 Letters to the Editor page (still hosted at TheStranger.com) with responses to the article.

Get your filthy hands off my asp (morrisp), Saturday, 15 August 2020 02:20 (three years ago) link

What a dogshit headline, “Immodest Mouse: Singer Accused of Rape,”

The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 15 August 2020 02:33 (three years ago) link

p funny tho

Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Saturday, 15 August 2020 04:52 (three years ago) link

At risk of reviving a clusterfuck, I’m going to get into many of the same issues that plagued the Jane’s Addiction thread, regarding a situation that is ambiguous. I’m willing, in the absence of further evidence, to conceded that Brock’s case was _ambiguous_. But that piece was so thoroughly soaking in rape culture tropes that it makes it more suspicious, not less.

-where is the victim/survivor/rapee’s point of view? It is missing. It is alluded to, but never detailed. We only ever read about the disputed sex act through the eyes of the accused, we are only invited to empathise with the alleged perpetrator.

rape is a crime of subjectivity. The people involved are on different scripts. One says it was consensual, the other says it was coercive. To *erase* the subjective view of the person making the allegation is to erase the crime.

-the character of the accused is discussed in detail, presenting him in a favourable light, before the rape charges are ever introduced. He’s a 'Nice Guy' who would previously have joined anti-rape protesters, who is now portrayed as the *victim* of said protesters. The details of his current relationship are considered exonerating, as he is in a committed relationship with a sound and sensible woman. (Ted Bundy was able to charm sound and sensible women into relationships!)

-the details that *are* described about the girl are all ways of presenting her as differing from the 'perfect victim' script. She was 'known within the scene' (she had a Reputation.) She was there for a talk with an ex-boyfriend. (she was not a virgin.) She had been drinking.

-the fact of her drinking is produced as evidence that the event was somehow... *less* rapey and more ambiguous, even though alcohol is the tool most frequently used by rapists. When discussing Perry Farrell, people seemed to recognise that a much older man introducing mind-altering chemicals to a younger woman not legally able to obtain them herself, was something that warped the power dynamics to make it *more* ethically dubious, not less. The girl becoming intoxicated, while drinking at his table, (notice how it is totally elided, who supplied the alcohol?) is supposed to somehow exonerate Brock?

-the offer of accommodation. Here we have the introduction of ambiguity, in the sense of the Crossing of Sexual Scripts. We have a teenage girl, illicitly intoxicated to the point where she is unable to locate her keys, stranded in a dodgy part of town, at odd hours of the night, a situation which most young women would read as dangerous enough to require a companion on the walk home. Women are taught, by Rape Culture, that being alone, intoxicated, in an unfamiliar part of town, late at night, is the single most dangerous situation where one can expect to be raped. She is coming from a place of vulnerability, and looking for a haven.

-the man offers her a place to stay. This *appears* to be an offer of a safe haven, protected from 3AM-Rape-Streets. The sexual scripts here completely differ. Rape Culture teaches men, that if a woman willingly enters your house/apartment/hotel room/tourbus after midnight, she is essentially ~Consenting To Enter The Rape Palace~ and is tacitly agreeing to any and all sexual contact.

We’ve seen, in those stories of Mark K, how abusive men use those 'crossed scripts' of "oh, you need to call an Uber, come back to my hotel, you can do it there" to impose a sexual ~Rape Palace~ script on a woman who believes she is on a Safe Haven script.

-the former housemate is given more of a voice, in the story, than the *victim* is! This housemate sees no apparent connection between the two events they overhear:
a) Brock tells the girl to be quiet or the housemate will hear
b) The girl is quiet, there are no noises indicating any kind of distress, therefore no rape can have taken place

In a safe haven script, 'be quiet so my housemate does not hear' is specific statement indicating, if you make noise, object, protest, you will be in trouble, you will lose the Safe Haven, and be ejected back on the 3AM-Rape-Streets. It is not an indication of consent, it is a quite conceivably a veiled thread.

-The victim is quiet, she does not scream, indicate distress, or try to run away, therefore clearly the sex was consensual.

This is just pure Rape Culture. People are taught that there are only 2 reactions to fear or threat – Fight or Flight. People who study the experiences of rape survivors, repeatedly encounter two different reactions from the point of view of the rapee: freeze, or flop. These are the overwhelming responses described by survivors of rape, to either completely freeze up and become physically petrified and incapable of moving; or to become completely passive and flop about like a dead fish.

In predator theory, these responses are sometimes compared to other prey responses within the natural world. Deer freeze in the headlamps. If you are a creature that has pretty good natural camouflage, facing a predator who works by sight, especially sight which is sensitive to movement, *freeze* is actually a successfully adaptive response to attack. Animals play dead. If what you are facing is not a predator looking to eat you, but a much bigger animal patrolling its territory or its defending its young, an inert, floppy prey which appears to be already dead, is no longer a threat, and will generally be left alone. *Flop* can be a successfully adaptive response to attack.

If you are working from a model that sees 'fight or flight' as the only potential reactions to rape, you will miss the actual 'freeze or flop' reactions that 90% of rape survivors report. That's why so many rape activists are trying to work to change sexual scripts from 'absense of no' to 'enthusistic consent'. The person writing this piece is showing right here, that they have *no fucking idea* what rape is, or how people who are being raped act. And that was the point where I stopped reading.

Without the actual words of the girl (though she is reported as describing the experience as rape) I cannot make that subjective call of 'rape' or 'not rape'. But the way that things are presented in this piece, every angle, every framing, makes it *more* likely to be rape, not less.

cheeky boshing shamanic art-prankster (Branwell with an N), Saturday, 15 August 2020 07:04 (three years ago) link

What a completely unnecessary post.

cheeky boshing shamanic art-prankster (Branwell with an N), Saturday, 15 August 2020 08:10 (three years ago) link


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