www.rateyourmusic.com C/D?

Discovered "customize this page" on the bottom... hides all reviews forever. This site rules now.

A major problem with the development of Sonemic is that they're taking the suggestions from the nerdiest of users. If anything buries the site, that will be it. But yeah I'm not really sorry that it's taking them forever to migrate the site. Which I can't explain even imagining all the trouble in rewriting all the code.
They hired a communication person, which is a really good idea.
The site is awesome to be honest, the problem is the demographics. Too young, bad nerdy taste.

bad nerdy taste

Care to expand on that?

I dunno, the maintainers seem to me to be building the site that they want, and would probably need to hire more than a comms person if It's ever going to have wider appeal.

It's quirky to use (Kate otm "web 2.0") but seems to be the best thing around for actively keeping track of your listening. It doesn't touch Discogs for keeping track of a collection, but ratings there seem like an afterthought.

Care to expand on that?
― pomenitul, Friday, July 31, 2020 7:21 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean looking for qualities in music that cannot be played in any social setting, a bedroom cult(ure) of the niche, obscure, subculture, difficult, hardcore, maximalist, minimalist, original, novelty. It's a little tiring and unhealthy and not ideal to engage music together. I'm sure others would paint a picture where RYM is painfully safe and middle of the road, which is not necessarily irreconcilable. I'm pretty sure it's a question of age and perspective, I speak as someone in his 30s who is feeling more like consolidating his taste and finding instant jams than lending his ear to everything. But RYM was very satisfying for me from 2007-2012, and I've stayed, maybe it's tough love.

Sounds like good nerdy taste to me (I'm in my mid-thirties and have been like this my whole life, mind you).

I can't really explain why it codes as bad nerdy taste, but what I see as the primary RYM community definitely gives off bad nerdy vibes. Something very solipsistic about it, maybe? Just the worst possible take on Nabozo's description. I feel like, basically, the outspoken folks on there are engaging with music for a completely different reason than me and I just don't understand it, too much gatekeeping and canon-building and inventing subgenres and trying way too hard to pretend zolo is a real thing*. And fucking Bull of Heaven.

*don't @ me frogbs ;)

“bedroom cult(ure) of the niche, obscure, subculture, difficult, hardcore, maximalist, minimalist, original, novelty”

none of these things are bad necessarily but the dominant rym userbase tends to define & identify signifiers of them in the most tediously limited & clearly demographically-conditioned ways. a bit like the wire or early pitchfork but a lot redditier

^^^yes, this.

Can you say what's wrong with canon-building? Is it being too hasty or something like that?

Too centralized and authoritarian, I assume? We all have our head-canons, though.

How online users build anything other than personal canons?

Well, RYM does aggregate personal canons into charts that may or may not seek to appear authoritative.

Right. They should just be less Redditious about it.

Could just be me but when I spend too much time on RYM I'm left with the sense that their community prioritizes/emphasizes canon-building as part of the process of listening whereas I feel like it's something that should just sort of happen, it's fun to make lists every once in a while but it feels weird to make that an end.

I think the problem is general impatience to put out their opinions, same with the ratings and reviews (and all of you ilxor people who think it's reasonable to have a best of year list before the year is even finished! Febuary is the best time to reflect on the previous year). Forming a canon requires some time and reflection.

Too centralized and authoritarian, I assume? We all have our head-canons, though.

― pomenitul

needs more intersectionality i would say

as little as i trust "canons" in general, i particularly don't trust any "canon" derived primarily from fantano and /mu/. interrogating the systems that generate hegemony in any form is a pivotal necessity.

“bedroom cult(ure) of the niche, obscure, subculture, difficult, hardcore, maximalist, minimalist, original, novelty”

none of these things are bad necessarily but the dominant rym userbase tends to define & identify signifiers of them in the most tediously limited & clearly demographically-conditioned ways.
― the state is bad (Left), Saturday, August 1, 2020 5:53 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I agree. It's also a lack of diversity both in music and music appreciation, for a community that perceives itself as open-minded and free of prejudice.

I question the critical abilities of a community that rates Tool as highly as RYM does, but I'm also very aware that maybe the problem is with me.

ok look I have no idea if "Zolo" is a real thing or not I just know that almost everything I've heard that's been tagged that way I've liked, in fact that one popular Zolo list on RYM really did lead me to a lot of cool stuff

I guess my take is that Zolo is more a supertype, like a color. same way you can have a "green car" but not just a "green", I dont know if there's such a thing as just "Zolo". maybe Albert Marcœur which is a little too wawaweewa even for me

my current take is that "zolo" is a retroactively constructed and arbitrary genre - but that's not, honestly, the crux of my discomfort. none of the '80s artists who are currently classified as "zolo" would have identified themselves as such at the time. that makes me uncomfortable to a certain extent, there's an element of appropriation to retroactively canonize, say, kate bush as a "zolo goddess" or whatever, _particularly_ given the demographics of the people who are doing so. it's... the framing, the genres rym praise and uplift and in some cases basically _create_ - the same sort of thing that's been happening with RA of late.

I really like that that retroactive construction of genres and I feel like there's a little bit of that going on even in fully fledged ones. As long as you know the musicians never intended this.

okay, i just looked at the "zolo" description thing on rym and wow, that shit is pretty overbearing and pompous. feels like some dude decided to make up a genre for their favorite records and simultaneously didn't want to just say, "ya, i like new wave-era rock music."

feels like some dude decided to make up a genre for their favorite records and simultaneously didn't want to just say, "ya, i like new wave-era rock music."

― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin)

this is literally where zolo came from

how quaint.

Was zolo coined by specific user such as imago?

this is as good a time and place as any to announce my one-man record solo zolo. please do not categorize me

idk it's definitely a specific subset of 'new wave-era rock music' and I think it extends to some prog records as well...actually when I think of Zolo I think first of Gentle Giant

again as "overbearing and pompous" as it is I think this is one of the strengths of RYM. even if "some dude decided to make up a genre for their favorite records" this dude has similar taste to me so this sort of thing is very useful

rym is full of weirdos like that, heirs to the "weird 78 collector" tradition that Camaraderie is so well-acquainted with. any time i get digging into weird old records, because i am a weird old lady who is uncommonly obsessed with the music of the 1970s, i find that whatever the record, it is already on A List compiled by this kind of disturbing guy who goes by Zaragon (and who I sometimes get mixed up with Nabozo, sorry, Nabozo, you don't deserve that).

seriously, look at this guy's page and tell me it isn't some batshit crazy timecube shit:

https://rateyourmusic.com/~Zaragon

"maximal trilustrum"? that's not a thing, sir. i'd tell him to his face, except that i have a strong sense that it is important for my self-preservation to put as much distance as possible between me and him.

and also because, shrug, i guess he has heard a whole shitload of cool records i haven't yet.

my new favorite genre is called ozlo. it's french pop music sung by people whose native language is not french. all we got so far is april march, dick annegarn, and louis phillipe. but yeah: ozlo's fucking rad!!

this is all making rym seem more endearing than I assumed it was just a few minutes ago tbh

there's a guy who exclusively reviews one-off 70s singles from the Midwest, I love that guy

xps. louis phillipe is French!

No true ILMer can seriously root against music obsessives who flaunt their insufferably niche tastes.

sounds like a challenge to me.

No true ILMer can seriously root against music obsessives who flaunt their insufferably niche tastes.

idk posters railing at length against personality traits they themselves exhibit is all the rage on ILX so it's a tough call

True. Literally takes one to know one.

this is all making rym seem more endearing than I assumed it was just a few minutes ago tbh

― the quar on drugs (Simon H.)

it is incredibly endearing! seriously i've found so much rad music through that site. much as i'll bitch about the site, it's not like i actually hate "egyptian shumba" or anything.

my current take is that "zolo" is a retroactively constructed and arbitrary genre - but that's not, honestly, the crux of my discomfort. none of the '80s artists who are currently classified as "zolo" would have identified themselves as such at the time. that makes me uncomfortable to a certain extent, there's an element of appropriation to retroactively canonize, say, kate bush as a "zolo goddess" or whatever, _particularly_ given the demographics of the people who are doing so. it's... the framing, the genres rym praise and uplift and in some cases basically _create_ - the same sort of thing that's been happening with RA of late.

― Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, August 5, 2020 12:11 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is my take, too, only far better articulated than it would have been coming from me. I like a lot of the stuff that gets lumped into this category, but the reason for my opposition to it existing as a "genre" is pretty well summed up by Kate's post. I love to go through the lists on there where people obviously put a lot of thought into it (not the "I will out-obscure you now!" ones), and if "zolo" was just one of those lists, then I'd probably be able to live with it. Probably shouldn't have brought it up in the first place ha.

score another one for 'zolo is a nonsense, yours, a fan of lots of 'zolo''

imo It's extremely dumb for them to go through every single release and tag "female vocals" or "male vocals."

However I definitely agree with those upthread who found it extremely helpful that they now embed every Bandcamp release on its own page.

imo It's extremely dumb for them to go through every single release and tag "female vocals" or "male vocals."

― billstevejim

well at least it seems to be done right - records featuring trans women on vocals are tagged as "female vocals". so i approve!

I'm in the mood for some "male vocals" tonight

There's also an 'androgynous vocals' tag. The overall guiding principle is anal, sure, but it seems pretty inclusive to me.

So this Sonemic thing? (Sonic + anemic?) Are they mining the RYM site to make list articles and Spotify playlists?

https://rateyourmusic.com/feature/sonemic-selects-black-sounds/

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2XLwpm5AHRIgSUotLss175

2020 | Sonemic Selects

A curated selection of tracks from the top-charting singles, EPs, and albums of 2020 on Rate Your Music / Sonemic.

A few weeks ago I reported a French black metal album for fash lyrics (the speaker describes himself as an 'eternally wandering Aryan' who worries that Spain will be overrun by 'Berber scum'). Still no acknowledgement to this day.

I don't think it ought to be removed from RYM's catalogue outright, but adding the usual disclaimer does, I think, make a difference:

This page has been marked by our userbase as describing content that contains Nazi/National Socialist material.

RYM does not host, sell, or distribute this material, and we do not agree with the opinions expressed by those who created/recorded it.

We have included these works in the RYM database for reference. It's our goal to document the existence of all film and music recordings, whether or not we agree with the content. We do not believe that an effective strategy in fighting these ideologies is to pretend that these recordings don't exist; in fact, it hinders those who want to speak against it by denying them a forum to educate others about the hateful content contained within the recordings.

If you are involved in recording a project marked by our users as Nazi/NSBM material and wish to refute this claim, then please submit a feedback (bottom of the page) with your contact information or an explanation and we will get in touch with you.

Major site update with tons of new features. The charts are wild and there are new subscription modes.

looks way better than that horrible beta site update i looked at a few months ago, musonic or whatever

Agreed, it's much nicer. Lots of cool touches like easily setting listening, genre tag clouds, a much better organised split between the main chart and esoteric.