I like large swaths of Farmhouse, but I absolutely loath both "Heavy Things" and "Gotta Jibboo" (though the later has gotten some decent workouts on stage), so I can never fully embrace it. The opening and the closing run from "Dirt" to "First Tube" are both great.
It's weird, I don;t know if there is any real general consensus on Phish studio albums. There's a sizable contingent these days that seems to essentially ignore the studio records and don't care about them at all, but I do know of quite a few fans that dig Farmhouse and look at it as their Workingmans' Dead/American Beauty (i.e. super distilled version of one particular thread of Phish songwriting, that happens to lean more heavily towards a folk/country sound in parts - though the comparison isn't precise).
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 28 July 2020 16:43 (three years ago) link
I came on board with Rift and still think it's pretty enjoyable and compelling. The sequencing is smooth, the production is crisp, the performances are energetic, a phenomenal batch of songs.
― peace, man, Tuesday, 28 July 2020 17:26 (three years ago) link
Hey y'all, bona fide Phish head here. First off, it is a treat to see them getting some love on ilx. I definitely fall into the category of Phish fans whose defense of their lyrics, singing, songwriting, scene, etc. is often feeble and apologetic. So really nice to see people from other corners of the musical world appreciating what they do.
I was at 4/4/98 and it is indeed awesome. I think most Phish fans still recognize the Island Tour as pretty close to their peak -- all the adventurousness of their playing in 1997 with the added jolt of the freedom that came from scheduling 4 off-the-cuff shows just because they were itching to get out in front of an audience again. The second set of 4/3/98 is the pinnacle for me; as Brad mentioned, in addition to the looong, patient jam out of Roses are Free, do check out the Piper that followed it. Equally patient and subtle. For those who are novices checking this stuff out, I also strongly recommend Twist from the first night, 4/2. After some pro forma jamming it really gets to an amazing place.
Studio albums: it seems like the first 4 or so have come to be regarded by fans as classics, and the longer the band exists the more fans seem to rate all of the albums from the 90s, but I think there's more than a hint of nostalgia/distance driving that reappraisal. It's weird to me that anyone would see Farmhouse as their masterpiece, as half the songs are leftovers from the songwriting explosion that led to the previous album, SOTG. And I agree with you jon, Heavy Things and Gotta Jibboo back to back in the middle of the album is just so dire and really kills it. I think what it has going for it is that they sort of hit on the ideal sound for studio Phish, but the song selection and sequencing negates that for me.
Personally, I stan for Junta, Rift, and Billy Breathes, and never reach for any of the others. Junta may be hard to take for non-fans because there's a lot of silliness in the lyrics, but there's something super charming about the clean, basic production on these long proggy songs that you get used to hearing in the high octane live environment. With Rift I have never really been able to hear the criticisms. To my ears the production sounds a lot richer and fuller than all their previous albums, they were writing more ambitious lyrics and actually hitting on many of them, the complex/proggy songwriting is toned down such that it serves the songs better, and the eclecticism of the previous 2 albums is smoothed out just enough for the whole thing to feel cohesive (previous album Picture of Nectar is the antithesis of cohesive). Billy Breathes was long regarded as their "masterpiece" as it were, but that does seem to be slipping somewhat. I think it is still probably their most successful album, but it is also maybe the one least representative of what the band's overall thing is. So.
Happy to make additional personalized recommendations if people are looking to dip their toes into this band. I guarantee a better job than Harris Wittels RIP. and I'm always looking for ways to justify the embarrassing amount of space the Phish live catalog takes up in my brain!
Here's the one performance I'd recommend to anyone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MzLuQXUeh0
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, 28 July 2020 17:45 (three years ago) link
xpost glad you agree on Rift, peace, man!
Sounds like a pretty good testimonial in the album's favor, imo!
― peace, man, Tuesday, 28 July 2020 18:33 (three years ago) link
Nice post Lavator. I would definitely throw Billy Breathes up as my favorite studio record, it's the one I go back to the most. SOTG would be a close second, such a weird, knotty record.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 28 July 2020 19:16 (three years ago) link
xp Lavator that Ghost from 5/22/00 is fantastic! I was at the previous night's show at Radio City, which I found kind of underwhelming at the time. Looks like I picked the wrong show of that run.
I was kind of disappointed by Farmhouse because it was such a sharp turn away from the deep funk of SOTG and Slip Stitch and Pass, but it's held up pretty well. If Phish has a "Workingman's Dead/American Beauty" I'd say it's Billy Breathes
― J. Sam, Tuesday, 28 July 2020 19:23 (three years ago) link
I can see that, but I really feel like Farmhouse better fits the WD/AB mold because it was the one to break out with a wider audience. I think I caught "Free" once or twice on alt-rock radio back in the day, but "Heavy Things" and "Back on the Train" were inescapable on AAA stations when Farmhouse was released. That felt like the point where Phish was being most widely acknowledged by more mainstream radio at least.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 28 July 2020 20:21 (three years ago) link
But, yeah, Billy Breathes is most definitely the better album of the two.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 28 July 2020 20:22 (three years ago) link
livephish no. 8, a '99 show in camden, nj, is really solid throughout, contains the best "chalkdust torture" i've heard and probably the best "bathtub gin" (not normally one of my faves) too. second set is pretty immediately off the chain with a slow heavy "tweezer" that works itself into a really odd space and then a "birds of a feather" that fuckin' cooks which is what i really care about
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 14 November 2020 23:18 (three years ago) link
my friend recommended this show to me by saying that the "chalkdust torture" turns into stereolab and she is not wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xZMHQjRTSM
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 14 November 2020 23:23 (three years ago) link
fucking amazing 18 minute "fluffhead" too my god
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 14 November 2020 23:38 (three years ago) link
Yeah, that’s a great one! Sadly one of the many Live Phish sets I had that was destroyed by the mystery goo.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:31 (three years ago) link
i enjoyed that show so much that i had to hear another summer '99 show, and the only other official release from that tour is 7/23/99 at the polaris ampitheatre in columbus, oh. starts off a little slow but the last thirty minutes of the surprisingly long first set are incredible, and then the second set is... def the best second set i've heard after my all-time favorite show (4/4/98). "ghost" > "free" alone is like floating. absolutely worth the $10 i paid for it on livephish dot com
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 15 November 2020 18:29 (three years ago) link
goddamn i love "birds of a feather" so much
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 15 November 2020 18:49 (three years ago) link
I love when Brad goes on a Phish kick! I’ve always loved a good “BOAF” jam.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 15 November 2020 21:41 (three years ago) link
Hey y'all, please check out this awesomeness. Depending how deep your Phish kicks have gone this song may not be as deeply embedded in your DNA as it is in mine, but this is a revelatory arrangement any way you slice it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtGTKE-RKTU
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 18:06 (three years ago) link
I haven't been able to check out any of the Beacon Jams shows, but def going to give that a watch later. Thanks for the reminder!
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 21:06 (three years ago) link
YEM one of the few Phish songs I still listen to. This version is exemplary.
― peace, man, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 00:35 (three years ago) link
Thanks, Lavator - beautiful, and then I was just was grinning like a goofball from 5 and a half minutes onwards - infectious joy! Looks like I'll be binging these shows over the weekend.
― knowing for certain the first touch of the light will finish you (fionnland), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 01:07 (three years ago) link
listening to live show and this band getting "funky" might be the worst thing in existence
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 15:40 (three years ago) link
Dud.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:05 (three years ago) link
classic!!!!!
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:08 (three years ago) link
the funky era is the best one
the drummer is so bad at it
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:09 (three years ago) link
the drummer is probably the best musician in phish lol
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:13 (three years ago) link
well...
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:16 (three years ago) link
I mean, there are a lot of valid criticisms of Phish, but saying they are "bad musicians" just shows me that someone has no intention of negotiating with their music in good faith.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:20 (three years ago) link
they are definitely an example of how good musician doesn't necessarily translate to good music
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:21 (three years ago) link
They are great musicians! They just have trouble with doing certain things that a lot of great musicians have. (xpost w josh)
The parts where they get more spacey and into out there jam territory are what they are good at (for me)
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:22 (three years ago) link
Okay, fair, I guess you weren't really suggesting they weren't, I just see that argument so often and it drives me crazy.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:25 (three years ago) link
What show are you listening to UMS? some of their funkiness admittedly embarrassing. other times very good tho
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:27 (three years ago) link
so...selected semi at-random: LivePhish Vol 7 8/14/93 World Music Theatre
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:29 (three years ago) link
I saw em live once, and this confirms my basic feeling, I like the second half of longer songs or jams when they get more out there/jazz fusion/prog/spacey/pretty, just feel like i have to sit through a pretentious spin doctors song to get there
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:31 (three years ago) link
divided sky and split open and melt were the best for me so far
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:32 (three years ago) link
Ha, sounds like how I feel about Zappa, minus the Spin Doctors part. More the feeling of sitting through some truly awful moments to get to moments of brilliance/bliss.
To my mind Phish really didn't start digging into the "funk" sound until after '96-'97 when they started to stretch out stuff like "Wolfman's Brother" and "Ghost". Also, I've always felt that the Phish "funk" is a bit of a misnomer, because it really has very little to do with any traditional definition of what we think of as funk, like P-Funk or whatever.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:34 (three years ago) link
I go back and forth on my Phish sympathies - the only constant being that I rarely feel like listening to them and when I do, it's not in large doses. But since this is on the topic of funk:
how's life wrote this on thread worst album covers ever: Primus -vs- Phish on board I Love Music on Mar 8, 2018xps:I was a Phish fan for about 7 years and what really broke them for me was when I went to check out some of the songs they had been covering. Especially Purple Rain. Can you imagine never having heard Purple Rain, only the jokey Phish cover, and then finding the Prince album on discount cassette one day and buying it just because what the hell? I had my fucking head blown off. It was like I had been lied to about the nature of music. Same for Sneaking Sally Through the Alley, Boogie On Reggae Woman, dozens more.
xps:
I was a Phish fan for about 7 years and what really broke them for me was when I went to check out some of the songs they had been covering. Especially Purple Rain. Can you imagine never having heard Purple Rain, only the jokey Phish cover, and then finding the Prince album on discount cassette one day and buying it just because what the hell? I had my fucking head blown off. It was like I had been lied to about the nature of music. Same for Sneaking Sally Through the Alley, Boogie On Reggae Woman, dozens more.
I mean, just
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kA_lcxxQaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6IMshcg-ow
― peace, man, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:42 (three years ago) link
Phish were creative and adventurous improvisers in 1993 but hadn't yet learned to (or cared to be) consistently patient or subtle. I'd recommend checking out Live Phish Vol 11, 11/17/97 to hear some more adept funkiness. Granted it is still not conventional funkiness that is comparable to the Meters or P-Funk or whatever. It's very much its own thing. But look to the 1997-2000 era for considerably more tasteful funking. The latter half of that era is less funky but will yield greater returns in the spacey/pretty genre that you may enjoy more.
if you really want me to nerd out I could give plenty more specific recs
xps basically what j/v/c said!
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:45 (three years ago) link
and yeah i've never understood why Boogie on Reggae Woman is a fan favorite. SO FAR INFERIOR to Stevie. ugh that repetitive guitar chording. i guess it's a fun bass showcase
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:46 (three years ago) link
comments re Purple Rain otoh really not fair to Phish. criticize them if you will for choosing that song as one to mock but it's obviously not intended to be a "musical" cover, it's comedic
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:47 (three years ago) link
yeah if you have a recommend that's more on the jams/space/pretty etc i'm all ears
we just got to this song "esther" this spoken word over a looney tunes version of "alabama song" by the doors is getting on my last nerve
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:48 (three years ago) link
Classic af. I don't have the time or energy to write a coherent defense, but I WILL RETURN
― J. Sam, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:49 (three years ago) link
ok we're out of the woods on esther now
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:50 (three years ago) link
i shouldn't be talking this much shit tbh
i guess phish is like my mom and christianity, she goes to a liberal, very social active church and i can def see how it affects her life in positive ways, in terms of comfort, community, service to others etc etc, but when i go to church with her on easter or xmas like i can't *believe* it the way she does, even if i appreciate it on a level
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:52 (three years ago) link
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:29 AM (twenty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
this isn’t even from the funk period!!!!!
the only livephish i truly rep for is 97-99. a live one is also a good record
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:52 (three years ago) link
ums - curious to know what you'd think of the half hour "Wolfman's Brother" from 11/19/97, I was in the audience for that one and it is essentially what converted me. It's filler on LivePhish 11, which I believe is on Spotify.
I'd also recommend the "Tweezer" from 12/30/19, a rather recent example of a killer deep dive jam that flips through multiple sections. I've spent a lot of time with that one.
otm, particularly when I think "Roses Are Free" did a better job of mining a similar vein
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:53 (three years ago) link
xp Esther is gorgeous once they get past the "oom-pa-pa" part
― J. Sam, Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:53 (three years ago) link
lol i see this was covered
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:53 (three years ago) link
<3 when Brad talks Phish
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:32 AM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
great songs!!!
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:54 (three years ago) link